Stop the Shooting of Seals

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by marineconcern

While I don’t doubt your shooting ability or your professionalism, I could “stop” a man at 500m using a 7.62, Self Loading Rifle (SLR) anything more than that would require “section” fire or specialist equipment. Optics are not legal. !

While I generally disagree with the shooting of seals and generally support your cause I wonder about this

in what way are optics not legal - there is nothing illegal about a telescopic sight.

Ive never controlled seals and can't imagine a circumstance in which i would - but hypothetically humane control with a rifle is possible if you use the right weapon and round ( I would suggest something considerably more powerful than a subsonic 7.62 from an SLR - like a .338M from a L96 or civilian equivalent) and in the right hands.

that said I do take your point about the lack of skill of many of those involved from fish farms and totally suport your view that neither the .22 rimfire or the shotgun is an appropriate weapon

[salukiwhippet]

Depends how close you can get and what shot size is used - I shot a very large fallow buck who was caught in a fence and badly injured the other week, with a shotgun (I had the .243 with me as well but there was no suitable backstop) 1 3/4 oz of BB from about 10 yards killed him instantly. The right shot load from a shottie will kill just about anything.

and 7.62 from an SLR is very definitely not subsonic - there are .308 (civilian equivalent) subsonic loads out there but they tend to be for very 'specific' roles. Subbies in an SLR wouldn't cycle the action.
Rather a moot point as self loading rifles in anything but .22lr and .22WMR are section 5 anyway.

If the earlier comparison to a red deer is accurate, then .308 would seem to be an eminently suitable calibre.

James

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Depends how close you can get and what shot size is used - I shot a very large fallow buck who was caught in a fence and badly injured the other week, with a shotgun (I had the .243 with me as well but there was no suitable backstop) 1 3/4 oz of BB from about 10 yards killed him instantly. The right shot load from a shottie will kill just about anything.

and 7.62 from an SLR is very definitely not subsonic - there are .308 (civilian equivalent) subsonic loads out there but they tend to be for very 'specific' roles. Subbies in an SLR wouldn't cycle the action.
Rather a moot point as self loading rifles in anything but .22lr and .22WMR are section 5 anyway.

If the earlier comparison to a red deer is accurate, then .308 would seem to be an eminently suitable calibre.

James

I totally concur on your first point - I meant that they are inadequate in the way in which they are often used - ie popping off at 50 metres plus so the seal is often struck by a few pellets and subsequently is only wounded or worse maimed

Ive used a shotgun up close for controlling turtles so i'm aware of the capability with the right load and range - however the only way to get that close to a seal would be from a boat - and that would make the shot inherently inaccurate on account of the instability of the firing platform

and on your second point I stand corrected as I have no doubt you know far more about firearms that I'm ever likely to - Ive never used the SLR (by the time i was washed from POC training they were using the SA80), I was thinking of the 7.62 round not remaining supersonic all the way to a long range target and thus becoming unstable when it crossed the sound barrier (hence the use of .338M or even .5 in military sniping applications) - but i guess this isnt relevant to the topic as no one would be taking that type of long range shots at seals anyway

[The Woodman]

As you've mentioned it, eeyore, can you elaborate on the control of turtles with a shotgun?

I cannot imagine the need for controlling turtles but there must be a reason in there somewhere.

I would imagine a 12b Brenneke slug would be a useful round at distances under 50m too.

[marineconcern]

Hi All!

It’s nice to see some interest here once again, just to let you know that the No. 10 Petition ends today, currently stands at 614, so well past the required 500 but just goes to show how hard it is to get things like shooting seals out into the public arena, but thank you all for your help.

I always try to back-up anything I say or have a reference for it and in reply to Eeyore and my comment regarding the shooting of seals with optical sights; try as I have I could not find the relevant paperwork; if you knew what my filing system was like you would understand; but as I can’t find it I withdraw my previous comment stating that the use of optics when shooting seals is illegal.

For an update on the Marine Bills: In England & Wales no mention of seals! In Scotland if it goes ahead as it stands; seals will continue to be shot under licence. That is even when the salmon farmers representative stated in evidence that common seals are too small to damage nets and even while the common seal population has taken an “alarming” decline, around one third of the UK’s total, lost!

This massive reduction in the common seals; the ones normally found closer to land, the ones that the local tourist boats take people out to see has caused concern amongst the tour boat operators and tourists alike: no seals/dead seals are not good for business!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

As you've mentioned it, eeyore, can you elaborate on the control of turtles with a shotgun?

I cannot imagine the need for controlling turtles but there must be a reason in there somewhere.

I would imagine a 12b Brenneke slug would be a useful round at distances under 50m too.

I dont want to hijack this thread but very breifly at the time i was managing a lake based nature reserve SSSI and we had a number of illictily released snapping turtles and terrapins that were decimating the water bird life (this was just after the mutant ninja turlte phase ended and idiots were releasing now unwanted pets) and which had established a breeding population - hence the need to control them which was fully licenced by the relevant authority.

Control method was to lie in an inflatable covered in a scrim net with a very low power electric trolling motor for propulsion and drift into range of their basking points before shooting them at 25m or less.

whole thing was somewhat distasteful as i have nothing against turtles in the appropriate environment but non lethal methods had already been tried unsuccesfully and they had to be elimnated if the grebes, dabchick, ducks, water rail etc populations were to have any chance of survival

[The Woodman]

Yes, apologies for the hijack - not intended.

The old brain hadn't considered red eared and snappers in UK waters! I was having some very unusual pictures in my mind!

Thanks for the explantion, eeyore.