Fox snares

[volence]

I agree with your last comment about bad apples. Good gamekeepers do alot for wildlife management. They help keep down the numbers of species that would get out of control, like deer. I admit I hated gamekeepers at first, i thought all they did was shoot animals and set traps for them. But my dad was helping out a game keeper on a farm and showed me what the gamekeeper did and I soon changed my views. The best thing to do is to take a look at what game keepers do, you might just change your minds.

(I don't agree with pheasant shoots etc but thats me)

[FUDGEY]

I agree that gamekeepers should not all be tarred with the same brush. I think a lot of peoples opinions are based upon what is local to them and what they see. In my area they are not wildlife friendly and kill almost everything that is not game. I had a long conversation with my wildlife ranger last night and he was telling me about all the problems in my area. One snare was found set a few feet away from a badger sett, but when confronted the keeper said he didnt know it was there. The police could not act as they said they could not prove he knew it was there. Our hands are tied i these situations and the keepers know it. Its all wrong.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by FUDGEY

One snare was found set a few feet away from a badger sett, but when confronted the keeper said he didnt know it was there. The police could not act as they said they could not prove he knew it was there. Our hands are tied i these situations and the keepers know it. Its all wrong.

Technically the police arent entirely correct in that situation, under the Countryside and Rights of Way act 2000 (which updated and superceded the wildlife and countryside act 1981) it is an offence to willfully or negligently kill, injure, or disturb or a protected species (without a licence from defra at any rate).

therefore had he actually snared a badger he would have been guilty under the act whether he intended to do so or not.

however as he hadnt actually caught one to the best of your/the polices knowledge it is debatable whether he has commited an offence as it is virtually impossible to prove that he intended to cause disturbance or harm ( though he isnt much of a keeper if he cant recognise a badger sett or tell a badger run from a fox run).

an expert could make the case that he had caused disturbance through the action of setting , and monitoring the snare line however , though this would depend on how close to the sett he was.

The bottom line is that wildlife and countryside law is complicated (and scottish law may differ from english law also) and the average cop doesnt deal with it very often and thus isnt particularly well versed. this is why it is generally better to engage with RSPCA investigations, and your local police Wildlife liaison officer. It is also worth consulting with the badger trust / NFBG who will have legal advisors who can support the investigative agencies as necessary.

[JoulesH]

I know our local Police Wildlife Officer well, I have also worked with a lot of keepers in the past. He knows many of our local keepers and farmers and some are frequently harassed by trespassers on their land interfering with things like larsen traps. The point has been made by the WO as well as staff I know at Natural England that where well-meaning 'animal lovers' resort to illegally interfering with LEGAL control means - eg legal fox snares, larsen traps, then regrettably the keeper or landowner is more likely in the long term to resort to illegal means of control - esp poisoning.

[martin s]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

anti's who let foxhounds out onto main roads, lay trails across railways.

James

I think you mean foxes that run across main roads and railways closely persued by foxhounds 'trail hunting'. Unless of course you read the Daily Telegraph who blame everything on antis including the current recession.

As for humane snares:

YouTube - Badger caught in snare - these inhumane traps must be banned

[salukiwhippet]

Originally Posted by martin s

I think you mean foxes that run across main roads and railways closely persued by foxhounds 'trail hunting'. Unless of course you read the Daily Telegraph who blame everything on antis including the current recession.

As for humane snares:

YouTube - Badger caught in snare - these inhumane traps must be banned

Nope, I mean antis cutting the locks off the hounds runs at the Blencathra kennels a few years back, and the hounds ending up on the A66.

Yep, that badger was in some distress. However if some silly sod hadn't stood a few feet away from it with a camera, it may well have settled down. Foxes (and rabbits) do.

James

[martin s]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Nope, I mean antis cutting the locks off the hounds runs at the Blencathra kennels a few years back, and the hounds ending up on the A66.

Yep, that badger was in some distress. However if some silly sod hadn't stood a few feet away from it with a camera, it may well have settled down. Foxes (and rabbits) do.

James

Oh please, Barry Todhunter has enough problems controlling his hounds (over 50 foxes killed in the first season of 'trail hunting') without them blaming anyone else.

Yes foxes and badgers do settle down when the camera isn't there:

Snared badgers and fox settled down

[wildliferescuer]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Nope, I mean antis cutting the locks off the hounds runs at the Blencathra kennels a few years back, and the hounds ending up on the A66.

Yep, that badger was in some distress. However if some silly sod hadn't stood a few feet away from it with a camera, it may well have settled down. Foxes (and rabbits) do.

James

It is absolute rubbish to say that foxes & badger 'settle down' when caught in a snare. How the hell do they suffer such horrific injuries if they are 'settled'?

[salukiwhippet]

Originally Posted by martin s

Oh please, Barry Todhunter has enough problems controlling his hounds (over 50 foxes killed in the first season of 'trail hunting') without them blaming anyone else.

Yes foxes and badgers do settle down when the camera isn't there:

Snared badgers and fox settled down

Oh well, that makes letting the hounds out in the middle of the night absolutely fine then doesn't it

Caroline: Badly set or illegal (self locking) snares will cause injury, I'm not denying that, nor defending their use. It stands to reason that you're not going to see the uninjured ones, you're a wildlife hospital!

The fact is that foxes do settle down after a few minutes when caught in a properly set wire, after a few minutes. Otherwise snares would not be used to catch foxes alive for radio collaring, of for the fur industry (in the US now, but used to be here too.)

James

[wildliferescuer]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Caroline: Badly set or illegal (self locking) snares will cause injury, I'm not denying that, nor defending their use. It stands to reason that you're not going to see the uninjured ones, you're a wildlife hospital!

The fact is that foxes do settle down after a few minutes when caught in a properly set wire, after a few minutes. Otherwise snares would not be used to catch foxes alive for radio collaring, of for the fur industry (in the US now, but used to be here too.)

James

Hmmmm. Strange then that in 25 years of dealing with injured wild animals, I have only seen a couple of self-locking snares. Most of the horrendous snare injuries we have seen have been from supposed humane, free-running snares!