Welsh Badger Cull Trial is Going Ahead

[Springer5]

Hi all

So it looks as if the Welsh assembly govt. have now announced their intention to start culling badgers in a trial area of west wales (in the nroth pembrokeshire area). A sad day for badgers, and a sad day for common sense. It seems they have also been busy changing legislation before announcing this so that any opposition to accessing people's land can be cirumvented at the outset.

However, I hear they are also going to implement a 'raft of biosecurity measures' to take place at the same time as the test cull. So the question is, assuming for a moment that TB cases fall following this process, how in hell's name are they going to know whether it was killing badgers or any one or mmore of the biosecurity measures which may be responsible for the drop.
The risk is, that they will simply see a fall in TB cases and conclude that the poor old badger must have been the cause of the problem, when it could be any one or more of the other things that they are doing at the same time, and we'll still be no closer to knowing the real problem.

Can anyone here actually point me in the direction of any stats on Badger population dynamics over the last few decades. I can't find anything definitive on the web, but may have missed it.

Thanks, if you can.

[Jason Green]

What sort of land are the badgers on, is it safe from development?

[The Woodman]

If I was one of the 80% of TB infected badgers in a red area population, I might think that euthanasia might be a better option than a lingering painful death with a body riddled with a highly contagious disease spreading at a rate comparable to that normally associated with badger social interaction.

[Rob_D]

a sad day for common sense.

too right

If I was one of the 80% of TB infected badgers in a red area population , I might think that euthanasia might be a better option

Perhaps if you were one of the majority of those badgers who were infected but who were asymptomatic, the irony of your death might be lost on you. In humans 90% of those infected with TB are asymptomatic. The following link suggests that only 1 in 20 of infected badgers actually have the full-blown disease (if anyone has other data, please post the link). Would you kill the 95% who do not develop the general disease? Or would you test all badgers for full disease symptoms before you killed them?

Just to be clear, are you advocating killing 100% of the badgers in an area to alleviate the suffering of, at most, 4%? Not all of those 4% who have the disease will die, by the way, some will recover.

http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/FastFac...rculosis_F.pdf

In maintenance hosts other than cattle, the prevalence of infection and the severity of the disease vary with the species. In Ireland, more than 40% of culled badgers have been found to carry M. bovis in some studies. Most of these animals remain unaffected: 50-80% of infected badgers have no visible lesions, and 5% or less develop generalized disease.

Sorry for the rant, but this is an issue about which I care alot about.

[The Woodman]

Rob D, I wasn't advocating the killing of badgers at all, no mention of it in my post - no suggested science. Just an alternative view from the other side from someone who also cares about the welfare of badgers.

[Rob_D]

Sorry Woodman, wasn't meant to be an attack on you, but your post could easily be misinterpreted as advocating culling to put those 80% of badgers out of their misery.

Some people might think from that post that 80% of badgers are suffering terribly, and that's way off the truth. Even in the worst areas, actually only a small minority are actually suffering.

[galanthus]

Has anyone any idea of where this is to take place ? If so are there any demos or sabs planned ? One very willing volunteer here !!

[stripee]

Originally Posted by galanthus

Has anyone any idea of where this is to take place ? If so are there any demos or sabs planned ? One very willing volunteer here !!

Between Fishguard, Newport, Cardigan - River Teifi, down towards Carmarthen, A40 and across to Narbeth. A 200 sq km zone somewhere in this area in which as many badgers as possible will be killed. None will be post mortem tested for bTB.
About 200 farmers are being consulted, but that leaves everyone else with as little information as possible. Legislation to force entry is being drafted and will have public consulation but don't know who is regarded as the "public" yet. Could just be more dairy farmers. Reading the local papers, some dairy farmers/NFU officials and the local politicians are all over the moon about it. No doubt they are imagining more rural votes.
Judging by the local moods I haven't met anyone that is happy, including farmers who want to keep their badgers. I think there will be surprise from the Welsh Assembly how many local people are upset. Let alone outside the area. Although of course, some are delighted too.
Someone told me they had heard on the radio that "the cull would be good for tourism".

[Deerhunter]

Originally Posted by stripee

Between Fishguard, Newport, Cardigan - River Teifi, down towards Carmarthen, A40 and across to Narbeth. A 200 sq km zone somewhere in this area in which as many badgers as possible will be killed. None will be post mortem tested for bTB.
About 200 farmers are being consulted, but that leaves everyone else with as little information as possible. Legislation to force entry is being drafted and will have public consulation but don't know who is regarded as the "public" yet. Could just be more dairy farmers. Reading the local papers, some dairy farmers/NFU officials and the local politicians are all over the moon about it. No doubt they are imagining more rural votes.
Judging by the local moods I haven't met anyone that is happy, including farmers who want to keep their badgers. I think there will be surprise from the Welsh Assembly how many local people are upset. Let alone outside the area. Although of course, some are delighted too.
Someone told me they had heard on the radio that "the cull would be good for tourism".

Do you think most farmers are for or against the cull?

[stripee]

Most large dairy farms for, though not all. I heard of 5 farmers this week upset about giving up their badgers. But maybe they will have to shut up.
It won't be easy to convince everyone especially those who don't have livestock. And by making it compulsory, there will be problems.