Grey Squirrel

[SquirrelFan]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

Ok now your just getting silly. This is why these threads get shut down. Some dissagrees with someone and just starts getting abusive. I think your find that Eeyore is a long term and well respected member, and after some your frankly nasty comments about those who have differnt views, I wouldnt go round critising others attitudes.

...

And just because a few nutters take enjoyment from killing squirrels does mean that everyone who shoots squirrels does or that its not the right thing to do in areas where the reds are under threat

I politely suggest you do some research before critising others.

Apologies to Eeyore and anybody else I've offended. I really didn't mean to. I just feel strongly about greys (and I'm not in the industry so, yes, I don't have the detailed knowledge some of you have).

And when I mentioned Paul Parker etc I only meant that they are the only red squirrel protectors I actually see. I wasn't implying that you or anyone else in this thread were like that. I imagine that you would treat culling as a job which has to be done.

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by tufftie

Live & let live, enjoy! crikey whats the worst that can happen...A foreign rodent with a love for skunk, running off with all your favourite TV series around tea time when ya dad busts in & sends ya down the offy in the pooring rain & England have lost once more, you give them hell & you know you couldn't complete a rubics cube before potato week because your sensei is well, you know, teaching you marital Arts. Ooh look there's a squirrel.....nice

Amazing what you write when you're asleep! Somebody forgot to switch users again!!!

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by eeyore

well its about time she accepted that i'm right

Never you hear never!!!!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

The culling of reds stopped long ago. Squirrel pox is very very nasty, and grey squirrel culling is usually carried out by more humane methods than warfarin, which I think your find most folks will not condone the use of for any animal, except where its the last resort.

And just because a few nutters take enjoyment from killing squirrels does mean that everyone who shoots squirrels does or that its not the right thing to do in areas where the reds are under threat

I politely suggest you do some research before critising others.

I agree that wafarin hoppers are an inhumane method and also inadvisable as toxins can persist in the foodchain - they are sometimes used in comercial forestry but on nature reserves they are very rarely employed (normally only in an emergency when every other method has failed). This is what I meant about it being better that culls are carried out by those that care

the normal method of squirel control is drey poking - you basically destroy the drey with a long stick - this is only done out of the breeding season so no squirells are directly harmed. The idea is that the squirell spends most of its time rebuilding so it doesnt have time to breed.

Where populations are high wardens etc might also have to resort to shooting - but if this is done by skilled proffesionals using appropriate rifles and ammunition ( I used a .25 FAC rated air rifle with hollow point pellets) then the kill is virtually instant and humane.

That said I took no pleasure whatsoever in the task, and recall colleagues having been virtually in tears at the end of a day - but to protect the red population we had no choice but to cull and like i said it is better for the squirells that we do it than someone who doesnt care.

On your other point i'm not saying that non proffesionals arent entitled to an opinion , clearly everyone is free to say what they wish (politely). However if your car broke down would you consult a bloke in the street or a qualified mechanic ? If you needed an opperation would you ask some bloke in your local or consult a surgeon ?

I may have gone slightly to far too and if so I apologise for any offence caused but I am equally passionate about protecting the red squirell.

(edit - those remarks were of course in reply to squirell fans comment not that posted by ukw - i hit the wrong quote button )

[SquirrelFan]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I agree that wafarin hoppers are an inhumane method and also inadvisable as toxins can persist in the foodchain - they are sometimes used in comercial forestry but on nature reserves they are very rarely employed (normally only in an emergency when every other method has failed). This is what I meant about it being better that culls are carried out by those that care ...

Thanks eeyore. That message has really educated me The one aspect of squirrel control that really does anger me is that (I think) anybody can kill a squirrel on private land. So doesn't this mean that anybody with a gun can take a shot? And if they are not a skilled rifleman, they may just miss or worse injure the squirrel.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by tufftie

Amazing what you write when you're asleep! Somebody forgot to switch users again!!!

Have you been talking in your sleep........again Naomi......

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by SquirrelFan

Thanks eeyore. That message has really educated me The one aspect of squirrel control that really does anger me is that (I think) anybody can kill a squirrel on private land. So doesn't this mean that anybody with a gun can take a shot? And if they are not a skilled rifleman, they may just miss or worse injure the squirrel.

That isnt absolutely true - grey squirels are covered by the general licence under the countryside and rights of way act 2000. This means that they can be legally killed by the landowner, tennant, or agents of the landowner or those acting with his permission, providing that they can demostrate that such action is necessary to protect their crops, game etc, and also providing that they employ lawful and humane means.

in application this means that game keepers, foresters, farmers etc can kill them to protect either their woodlands or their game birds , and by case law that nature reserve staff can to protect other wildlife but joe public cant pop one in his garden just because he doesnt like them.

the lawful and humane means clause, means you can use appropriate firearms (subject to the firearms act) so long as you kill clean, and also fenn traps (if used in a covered tunnel), cage traps, and hoppers with lawful toxins - i think the latter should be changed but that is how the law stands.

you can't therefore legally use gin traps, underpowered (normally sub 10ftlbs) air rifles, glue, banned toxins, or the destruction of dreys that contain young.

If you dont take reasonable care not to maim (either through lack of shooting skill or inappropriate weapon) you could be subject to prosecuion under bother the CROW act and the cruelty to animals act.

[tufftie]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Have you been talking in your sleep........again Naomi......

Now where were those mice...??!!! Another one for Hedge Witches thread

[Llangynog]

From me, Mr Speckler, the answer is most definitey no, and the same applies to any other alien species introduced from "another continent, 1000s of miles away." Please note the inverted commas. Introductions from not far away very often, not always, can be tolerated or may even be beneficial because in most cases evolution has occurred, as in the case of the little owl for example, but definitely not in the case of the hedgehog in the Hebrides.
The evidence for the stupidity of introducing and then tolerating non-native species is, for anyone who cares to look, all over the world and is readily available on the internet.
A sensible policy, for us and all countries, would be to eradicate all alien species as soon as they occur, but the objections are usually from well-meaning but hopelesly ill-informed animal lovers who know precious little about nature and nothing about evolution and who put their own prejudices, sentimentality and selfishness before the health and wellbeing of a whole ecosystem.
I have yet to see a convincing, well-reasoned argument for the tolerance of alien species that cannot very easily be shot down in flames by the use of science, common sense and the evidence of history.

Now that should have put the cat amongst the pigeons!

Al.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Llangynog

Now that should have put the cat amongst the pigeons!

as regular members/readers of this thread will know i have no objection to grey control but advocating total eradication is just plain silly, not only does it alienate people who might otherwise be persuaded of the necesity of contro in the reds home range, but it is also entirely impractical in application.