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13-04-2008, 08:58 AM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Cumbria
Posts: 216
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Don't criticise farmers with your mouth full...... |
13-04-2008, 10:26 AM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: East Sussex
Posts: 891
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Wouldn't dream of it. Politicians after quick votes is another matter. |
13-04-2008, 10:46 AM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Shropshire
Posts: 699
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
I'm a big (practical) supporter of my local farms, Woodman. |
13-04-2008, 10:57 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Scunthorpe, Nth Lincs
Posts: 1,534
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
No, I would n't.
__________________ Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. Nature Photo's |
13-04-2008, 12:17 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 32
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer5  Thanks for the advice Roaring Mouse. You're right. I did not know this.
It's going to be hard to just stand there trying to physically stop a load of 'officials', who will probably have police support, without having some firm legal ground to stand on though. These people have the power to MAKE the law (to suit themselves!). Knowing my luck they'll probably just change it while they're stood there arguing.
Is there a law I can quote or something. Where did you here this ?
Maybe it's worth me visiting a solicitor or something. | Hi Springer 5,
They have to be invited on to your land to be able to enter it. Common knowledge in the West Wales Badger Group. All culling is done with the cooperation of the landowner themselves. This proposed culling may well be left to the land owner to actually do. They will do the killing! DEFRA is not too keen to take it on, cost cutting exercise.
Those that do not support such actions or threats of action should remember the control that is there as a consumer. You change things by changing your buying tactics.
The Badger by the way is only the thin end of the stick, if culling Badgers does not work there are other wildlife to fall upon as well. If you listen carefully to the soundbites being given wildlife is being used in some instances rather than Badgers, laying the ground for a backup plan?
Where will the blame culture stop?  |
13-04-2008, 12:41 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: west wales
Posts: 746
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
I've belonged to the WW Badger group for years, though its too far from me to get to meetings. Also I belong to Dyfed one. Anyone with an up to date version of Microsoft Publisher out there. I've a big problem with trying to print out a Badger cull poster sent to me because my version of publisher is too old, I've just tried to download new trial version of publisher and it tells me it will take 36 hours on my dial up connection. I need someone to email it to who has an email address (not Hotmail they won't download it although its virus free) and Publisher who can cut and paste it into Microsoft word and send it back to me. Any help, please pm me  Otherwise I think I will try and make my own to put around the local town tomorrow.
Last edited by stripee; 13-04-2008 at 12:57 PM.
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13-04-2008, 01:11 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: west wales
Posts: 746
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
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13-04-2008, 01:16 PM
| | New Member | | Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Yes I would support a boycott of Welsh beef and dairy products.
The MAFF acknowledge that some farms although at the same risk of exposure to T.B do not suffer the occurrence of T.B in their herds.
Surely the farming industry should be learning and following the lead of the farms that are not susceptible to T.B rather than slaughtering our Badgers. |
13-04-2008, 06:27 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaring Mouse Hi Springer 5,
They have to be invited on to your land to be able to enter it. Common knowledge in the West Wales Badger Group. All culling is done with the cooperation of the landowner themselves. This proposed culling may well be left to the land owner to actually do. They will do the killing! DEFRA is not too keen to take it on, cost cutting exercise.
Those that do not support such actions or threats of action should remember the control that is there as a consumer. You change things by changing your buying tactics.
The Badger by the way is only the thin end of the stick, if culling Badgers does not work there are other wildlife to fall upon as well. If you listen carefully to the soundbites being given wildlife is being used in some instances rather than Badgers, laying the ground for a backup plan?
Where will the blame culture stop? |
Thanks for that Roaring Mouse
The bit of land I own probably has about 3 or 4 setts on it, but I certainly won't be doing any killing for anyone. However, it is useful to know that they are not allowed unless invited by me (of course whether my farming neighbours will make my life a living hell if I don't go along with it is another matter). Even so thanks for the info.
BTW I agree with you about the rather worrying use of the word 'wildlife' . Blame anyone and everything except people, who can do no wrong it seems.
Incidently, I have read on the DEFRA website that humans can also carry the disease (without symptoms of course). Are the farmers themselves being tested I wonder. It seems to me that they are in a position to be among the biggest cause of spread out of everyone....no movement restrictions for them even during a clamp down on their infected herd,and the farmers are the people who, out of everyone are most likely to come into the closest contact with most of their herd on a twice daily basis during milking.
I wonder how many infected farmers there could be out there (even more of an irony if they are the same ones calling for a cull of Badgers). |
13-04-2008, 06:31 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Woodman Don't criticise farmers with your mouth full...... | Don't criticise the tax-paying, subsidising public (or the Badgers they love!)with your pockets full.
It works both ways.
Last edited by Springer5; 13-04-2008 at 06:32 PM.
Reason: Typo and additonal comments
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13-04-2008, 08:20 PM
| | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 493
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer5 Don't criticise the tax-paying, subsidising public (or the Badgers they love!)with your pockets full.
It works both ways. |
Firstly, he didn't.
Secondly. As a farmer I am also a tax paying, subsidising member of the public. |
13-04-2008, 10:40 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerhunter Firstly, he didn't.
Secondly. As a farmer I am also a tax paying, subsidising member of the public. | But you get to spend your and my money...I don't. What I'm saying is don't bite the millions of hands that feed (excuse the pun) the few thousand of you. |
13-04-2008, 11:03 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerhunter As a farmer I am also a tax paying, subsidising member of the public. | We all subsidise ourselves via what we earn in some form or other, it's called 'paying your way' (this may even happen in farming one day).
It's when everyone else subsides you AS WELL that you need to be a bit more grateful for it.
As a farmer,as you put it, you are....
1 - A member of the only type of small business in the UK who still gets his bills part-paid by the UK public (whether that includes your own insignificant 60 millionth of it or not).
2- You are the only type of small business who gets compensated for things that any other line of business would simply have to write off as a loss and either survive it or not. In any other small business, if conditions were such that you were not able to make a profit because things went wrong for you and you were losing more money than you made, you would simply go out of business and have to accept it. If you lost assets in a disaster you would either have private insurance or not and be compensated accordingly (or not). It's that simple....for everyone else.
3 - You are the only small business who is paid by the tax payer NOT to work (i.e. to enjoy the wildlife the govt pay you to encourage on to your fields instead of treating them like a factory). In other words, the less you farm, the less damage you do and hence the more the govt pays you via a nice little environmental 'scheme' as a reward for not violating the place.
So let's summarise....
- Bill's subsidised by the rest of us (on top of yourself, of course)
- Anything that leads to a loss of earnings, whether it's potentially your fault or not, you get compensated for (by the rest of us)
- The less you farm the more you get as a 'reward' (from the rest of us, again) for not screwing the place up.
Nice work if you can get it !!
And even with all this farmers STILL moan more than anyone else I've ever met.
I think it should be compulsory for every first-born male (who usually gets given the 'family farm') to spend several years paying his own way in the harsh world outside his farm boundaries before he takes the farm over; just so that he can see what it's like NOT to be drip fed by the govt. Then they would realise just how heavily supported they are, and so be more appreciative of what a cushy number they have, and more grateful towards those of us who help to pay for it on their behalf.
Last edited by Springer5; 13-04-2008 at 11:29 PM.
Reason: secondary thoughts
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14-04-2008, 05:13 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bishop Auckland Co Durham
Posts: 93
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
To all poor farmers struggling to keep your jobs.You are no different to 1000s of miners,shipyard workers, steelworkers and all the other unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and have had to retrain and find other forms of income to look after their families.Jobs are no longer for life and are no longer guaranteed to be passed down to other members of family.
Graham
__________________
"Aint Wildlife Brilliant" |
14-04-2008, 06:11 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by geordie graham To all poor farmers struggling to keep your jobs.You are no different to 1000s of miners,shipyard workers, steelworkers and all the other unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and have had to retrain and find other forms of income to look after their families.Jobs are no longer for life and are no longer guaranteed to be passed down to other members of family.
Graham | You are absolutely right Geordie. And just as a point of interest.....
to all those farmers who have those little billboards in their fields saying 'Keep Britain Farming'. You want our loyalty, but where were you when the Welsh miners were fighting Thatcher on similar grounds to yours now?
Where were you when the British car industry was on its knees?
All driving around in your foreign cars and foreign tractors and couldn't give a stuff, because you were allright Jack at that time...well now it's your turn.
Welcome to the real world, and not a moment too soon. |
14-04-2008, 06:30 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by geordie graham To all poor farmers struggling to keep your jobs.You are no different to 1000s of miners,shipyard workers, steelworkers and all the other unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and have had to retrain and find other forms of income to look after their families.Jobs are no longer for life and are no longer guaranteed to be passed down to other members of family.
Graham | You are absolutely right Graham. And just as a point of interest.....
to all those farmers who have those little billboards in their fields saying 'Keep Britain Farming'. You want our loyalty, but where actually were you when the Welsh miners were fighting Thatcher on similar grounds to yours now?
Where actually were you when the British car industry was on its knees?
All driving around in your foreign cars and foreign tractors and couldn't give a stuff, because you were allright Jack at that time...well now it's your turn and suddenly we're all supposed to be standing right there with you, throwing our money at you to help you out....please.
Welcome to the real world, and not a moment too soon.
My only complaint is that it hasn't yet gone anywhere near far enough. There's still far too much spoon-feeding and reliance on "the brown envelope" with the DEFRA cheques in it.
But at least we're heading slowly in the right direction. |
14-04-2008, 06:42 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by geordie graham To all poor farmers struggling to keep your jobs.You are no different to 1000s of miners,shipyard workers, steelworkers and all the other unfortunate people who have lost their jobs and have had to retrain and find other forms of income to look after their families.Jobs are no longer for life and are no longer guaranteed to be passed down to other members of family.
Graham | Quite right |
14-04-2008, 06:59 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bishop Auckland Co Durham
Posts: 93
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
I hate to see anybody go under but have seen loads of businesses go under because they been no longer financially viable usually because of cheap imports but nobody has come along and subsidised them.I live near a large chemical complex where 20 years ago it was a huge place paying damn good wages.Parts of it looks like a ghost town now. Yes i think that farmers are getting shafted by the huge supermarkets but after having been to a farmers market I can`t afford their prices either.All i can think is diversifying into something else.All I hope is that those farmers who are in trouble can find a way out but don`t think you are the only ones with problems.
graham
__________________
"Aint Wildlife Brilliant" |
14-04-2008, 08:08 PM
| | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 493
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer5 But you get to spend your and my money...I don't. What I'm saying is don't bite the millions of hands that feed (excuse the pun) the few thousand of you. | So why dont you spend my money ? |
14-04-2008, 08:20 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Whats the point in threads like this? unless only to get people banned. the farmers, same as the Fox hunters.
Last edited by StuartDH; 28-05-2008 at 02:22 PM.
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14-04-2008, 08:21 PM
| | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 493
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springer5 We all subsidise ourselves via what we earn in some form or other, it's called 'paying your way' (this may even happen in farming one day).
It's when everyone else subsides you AS WELL that you need to be a bit more grateful for it.
As a farmer,as you put it, you are....
1 - A member of the only type of small business in the UK who still gets his bills part-paid by the UK public (whether that includes your own insignificant 60 millionth of it or not).
2- You are the only type of small business who gets compensated for things that any other line of business would simply have to write off as a loss and either survive it or not. In any other small business, if conditions were such that you were not able to make a profit because things went wrong for you and you were losing more money than you made, you would simply go out of business and have to accept it. If you lost assets in a disaster you would either have private insurance or not and be compensated accordingly (or not). It's that simple....for everyone else.
3 - You are the only small business who is paid by the tax payer NOT to work (i.e. to enjoy the wildlife the govt pay you to encourage on to your fields instead of treating them like a factory). In other words, the less you farm, the less damage you do and hence the more the govt pays you via a nice little environmental 'scheme' as a reward for not violating the place.
So let's summarise....
- Bill's subsidised by the rest of us (on top of yourself, of course)
- Anything that leads to a loss of earnings, whether it's potentially your fault or not, you get compensated for (by the rest of us)
- The less you farm the more you get as a 'reward' (from the rest of us, again) for not screwing the place up.
Nice work if you can get it !!
And even with all this farmers STILL moan more than anyone else I've ever met.
I think it should be compulsory for every first-born male (who usually gets given the 'family farm') to spend several years paying his own way in the harsh world outside his farm boundaries before he takes the farm over; just so that he can see what it's like NOT to be drip fed by the govt. Then they would realise just how heavily supported they are, and so be more appreciative of what a cushy number they have, and more grateful towards those of us who help to pay for it on their behalf. | 1. Which bills do I get part paid by the public?
2.You could be right about small businesses, but not for big business eh ? Banks for example.
3. Factually completely incorrect. I only get paid by the RPA IF I continue to farm as I have in the last 10 years.
If you are going to try and have a go you need to read up a bit first.
I am the first born son but you will be pleased to know I worked elsewhere before returning.
But to summarise.....
You are a bit thin on accurate facts and suggestions but you want...
1. Immediate withdrawal from CAP by this country.
2. Subsequent withdrawal from the EU.
3. Immediate cessation of 90% of farms in the U.K.
4. !00% closure of those within national parks.
Nice attempt at a wind up but not much to do with Badgers !! |
14-04-2008, 08:34 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 92
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
No I would not make any attempt to avoid welsh produce.
It is simply not logical to leave a known disease vector uncontrolled and to attempt to husband a species susceptible to infection on the same land. You can argue about means, method and effectiveness of control measures but not (IMO) about whether it needs to be done or not.
Cheers
mac |
14-04-2008, 10:15 PM
| | Active Member | | Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 53
| | | Re: Badger cull, would you avoid Welsh produce
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deerhunter 1. Which bills do I get part paid by the public?
2.You could be right about small businesses, but not for big business eh ? Banks for example.
3. Factually completely incorrect. I only get paid by the RPA IF I continue to farm as I have in the last 10 years. | I'll agree with whoever made the point that this is way off topic by now, but I'll just finish my part of this by answering your questions (it's the least I can do to explain to you how your business operates).
1. Which Bills do I get paid by the public...every time you put up a fence on your fields we pay part, every time plant a hedge, we pay part, every time you have to replace livestock that you have lost through diseases such as bTB - back on topic? - or foot and mouth, we pay ALL. Why do you think the govt is looking for a scpaegoat to resolve this bTB problem, because it's costing us all a fortune. If | |
