Wolf Reintroduction yes or no

[Earth Hart]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Slaughtered wolves dont bring in any money either arghhhhhhh Sorry still havent got that out of my system

If wolves were released into a big estate they could run landrover safaris to see them, and/or put hides in areas wwhere they might be ( there is a place in finland that does this with bears, see WildArena - Wildlife & Photographic tours, holidays and workshops for more details)

I agree eeyore, wolves need space not penned in zoos. As to re-introduction of wolves, & other predators I say yes. We have to change "The Big Bad Wolf" mentality that most people hold, and make wolves more accessibile so they can be seen for what they are.

With regards 'wolf attacks' many have been shown to be dog rather than wolf and as to human deaths, all can be put down to stupidity & ignorance, of wolves, habitat and weather. One death said to be wolf related turned out to be a case of heart attack, the body was then scavenged by wolves.

With Alladale & Paul Lister, there may be hope for the wolf, bear, lynx, wisent(Wood Bison), boar and beaver. The plan is to have all predators radio taged, so if one escapes they can be caught quickly. When this project started, I went up to Alladale to have a look, I liked what I saw and Paul Lister seems an OK guy. He has been involved with the Carpathian Large Carnavore Trust for sometime now, so I think he knows what he's doing. Let's hope so.

[DL]

I spent a lot of time while I was at college looking at the reintroduction of the wolf in to Scotland and also repeatedly came up against the shortage of suitable habitat which ruled out anything other than a very small scale fully enclosed almost meaningless introduction.

In fact there seems to be a good case that the decline in their habitat was largely responsable for their long term decline and dissapearance.

On the issue of the Beaver introduction I belive that (allegedly) many of the claims prior to the trial test that the damage they can normaly do were greatly exagerated proved to be wrong when one or more may have escaped from the test enclosure. Allegedly, possibly but I never typed that

[speckled wood]

I would be in favour but I fear that our wonderful press would soon be telling fearsome tales of how people might be savaged by hoards of wolves ..... strangely we have them roaming the city streets already although they are called domestic dogs.

[Alan]

We can say yes to the reintroducion of wolves until we're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is it will never happen. I can see a safari-style park being set up such as Alladale, but a free-roaming population! Can you honestly see this happening?!

[Airehead]

No.........

[Jens]

How do we know they haven't already been re-introduced? Pet cats and dogs????? they don't live in areas with no habitation. Have we a Highland farmer amongst the WABbers? (I'd like their serious input) Caithness and Sutherland do not seem to have the numbers of sheep as of years past, and I'm led to believe this is in large part due to the high fuel costs, transportation etc. Scotland is big, and has huge areas uninhabited but these areas are getting smaller. I now have a Tesco within 25 miles, the uninhabited areas get less. All that, and I can't answer yes or no to wolves. Lets hear lots more.

[Charizard564]

I would love to see Wolves back in the UK, without them the caledonian forest has suffered severe deprevation from a mixture of humans and too many deer, wolves would solve the deer problem and hopefully scare off loggers, though i doubt it.Hopefully some day wolves will roam the UK but i severly doubt it will happen anytime soon, too many stupid people who think wolves will gobble up their grannies!

[SittingFox]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Incidentally if you love wolves or want to learn more about them an excellent book is "Wolf Country" by John and Mary Theberge about Wolves in the Algonquin National Park, Canada.

I love that book. You will be glad to know (if you don't know already) that the buffer zone around the park called for by the Theberges was made permanent in 2004, after there was a change of govt in Ontario.

I have campaigned on a variety of wolf issues and am somewhat disturbed to see old myths appearing on here. I often find that British people (in general, obviously not on this forum) have rather odd ideas about what it's like to be in wolf country. The truth is you're extremely lucky even to see a trace of them. There are seven million visitors to Banff and Jasper Parks in Alberta every year, and I'd guess that a few hundred see wolves.

They are not dangerous to people except, as eeyore said, if they're habituated. This usually occurs with people feeding them (illegally, I might add). I've seen a few habituated coyotes and boy is it a sick feeling, to see a beautiful wild animal like that doomed to a life of begging and probably death from a warden's bullet to protect tourists who think it fun to break the rules. I cannot emphasise strongly enough, if you see someone feeding wildlife in a national park it's time to report them to the management. They could get a fine of Cdn$2000; I think they should get a mandatory jail sentence. The warnings are posted everywhere, but wildlife is still dying.

Wolves have not been reintroduced anywhere in Europe; they returned naturally to parts of France (and were shot) and Switzerland (and were shot) and Norway (and were shot) and Germany where the outcome was still pending, last I heard. I don't follow European wolf news much as there isn't much I can do, and it's pretty depressing stuff.

Wolves are not dependent on wilderness, but they are dependent on people leaving them alone. When you consider the fate of the red kite in Scotland - how many were poisoned - and, worse, the hysteria in the press over foxes (ooh, the terror of a 10lb superpredator!), you have to ask whether this country is mature enough to live alongside wolves. I'd say not, and it's probably better to concentrate effects on wolf populations elsewhere that are clinging to existence for the time being.

(For anyone who's interested - you can find my footage of wild wolves in western Canada here. Taken in January 2003.)

[Alan]

Originally Posted by SittingFox

I love that book. You will be glad to know (if you don't know already) that the buffer zone around the park called for by the Theberges was made permanent in 2004, after there was a change of govt in Ontario.

I have campaigned on a variety of wolf issues and am somewhat disturbed to see old myths appearing on here. I often find that British people (in general, obviously not on this forum) have rather odd ideas about what it's like to be in wolf country. The truth is you're extremely lucky even to see a trace of them. There are seven million visitors to Banff and Jasper Parks in Alberta every year, and I'd guess that a few hundred see wolves.

They are not dangerous to people except, as eeyore said, if they're habituated. This usually occurs with people feeding them (illegally, I might add). I've seen a few habituated coyotes and boy is it a sick feeling, to see a beautiful wild animal like that doomed to a life of begging and probably death from a warden's bullet to protect tourists who think it fun to break the rules. I cannot emphasise strongly enough, if you see someone feeding wildlife in a national park it's time to report them to the management. They could get a fine of Cdn$2000; I think they should get a mandatory jail sentence. The warnings are posted everywhere, but wildlife is still dying.

Wolves have not been reintroduced anywhere in Europe; they returned naturally to parts of France (and were shot) and Switzerland (and were shot) and Norway (and were shot) and Germany where the outcome was still pending, last I heard. I don't follow European wolf news much as there isn't much I can do, and it's pretty depressing stuff.

Wolves are not dependent on wilderness, but they are dependent on people leaving them alone. When you consider the fate of the red kite in Scotland - how many were poisoned - and, worse, the hysteria in the press over foxes (ooh, the terror of a 10lb superpredator!), you have to ask whether this country is mature enough to live alongside wolves. I'd say not, and it's probably better to concentrate effects on wolf populations elsewhere that are clinging to existence for the time being.

(For anyone who's interested - you can find my footage of wild wolves in western Canada here. Taken in January 2003.)

How big is Banff compared to Scotland?! And how much of it is a heavily managed habitat with interestes such as farming, forestry and shooting estates?!

It's not a question of if we want them here, I would say most would love it (me for one!). It's a question of if it's realistic for them to be reintroduced.

[SittingFox]

Only about 20% of Banff is usable wolf habitat, and a lot of that happens to be the areas where humans dwell. Trust me, they're elusive.

EDIT: And to be honest it only takes a few farmers and hunters to disagree and the programme is in trouble, regardless of what the majority may wish. Look at Arizona and what's happening to the lobos