Rat poison, will it kill hedgehogs

[wellerjam]

Hi

I have a rat/mouse problem.

If i put poison down will it also kill the lovely Hedgehogs that come into the garden?

thanks for any advice

[kshotton45]

Originally Posted by wellerjam

Hi

I have a rat/mouse problem.

If i put poison down will it also kill the lovely Hedgehogs that come into the garden?

thanks for any advice

I would expect poison to kill Hedgehogs.

Try a trap from here ..
Helst Pest Control Electronic Rat, Mouse Zappers Cages and Traps
The first 2 look dodgey ! But with the others a Hedgehog shouldn't be able to get in the cages, but if they did you could release them.

Keith.

[Paul mabbott]

Rat/mouse poisons are based on warfarin which 'thins the blood' so that animals that digest it will suffer "strokes" from internal bleeding (rather than from clots). Clearly the amount of warfarin needed for fatality varies with the size of the animal - mice will be more rapidly affected than rats than foxes than humans ....
If the problem is within the house then use a mouse/rat killer - shouldn't affect anything else.
If it's outdoor then you need to take selective methods - enclosing the bait &c ... what is your basic problem?

[Cazzie]

Hi wellerjam and welcome to WAB - fan of the Jam by chance?!?

Ok, so onto your rattie problem....

In my opinion rat poison should only be used where it is confined from wildlife eg. down a drain for example. If this is not possible because that's not where your rats are, then a humane trap and alot of patients and regular checking of the trap is the only way to go about it methinks, but please don't bait it with poison - I've heard scrambled egg works!

Keep us posted on your rat-catching efforts, would be interested to see if and how you got them!

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Rat/mouse poisons are based on warfarin which 'thins the blood' so that animals that digest it will suffer "strokes" from internal bleeding (rather than from clots). Clearly the amount of warfarin needed for fatality varies with the size of the animal - mice will be more rapidly affected than rats than foxes than humans ....
If the problem is within the house then use a mouse/rat killer - shouldn't affect anything else.
If it's outdoor then you need to take selective methods - enclosing the bait &c ... what is your basic problem?

I'd heard that most animals would vomit up Warfarin at levels way below that needed to kill them but rats and mice don't do this so warfarin is a pretty specific rodenticide - not sure whether this is true, has anybody else heard this?

Not sure, either, whether I would use it because of the possible effect on mice and voles.

[Paul mabbott]

That's a bit reassuring! The mice have been into our pantry eating potatoes at a great rate and, i'm afraid, I've had to put out some pellets.
Quite interesting that they are coming imdoors so early and that they are eating pots - carrots there as well as a lot of dried food; I don't recall them specialising on the tatties before.
Normally they go for packeted things - flour, lentils, rice, nuts - with just the little nibble at fresh veg ...

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I'd heard that most animals would vomit up Warfarin at levels way below that needed to kill them but rats and mice don't do this so warfarin is a pretty specific rodenticide - not sure whether this is true, has anybody else heard this?

Not sure, either, whether I would use it because of the possible effect on mice and voles.

[thunder]

I think there are many more poisons than Warfarin used for rats nowadays. I would definitely be wary of using rat poison where any other animal could pick it up.

henrya

[demicav]

I agree, poison - bad idea. Only as a last resort and not where other animals can pick it up. Poison can get into the food chain and kill wildlife. If you have Hedgehogs I would be especially careful as They are on the decline anyway and need Hedgehog friendly gardens to live in. I would use humane traps and relocation, I only go for humane traps .

[Paul mabbott]

Quite so - always read the instructions and the components! Certainly all the mouse killers that I can find are warfarin based. I can't find anything going back to the Agatha Christie days of cyanide or strychnine which could be conveniently used to kill off a rich or inconvenient relative! Thankfully, I only want to deter some mice .... mind, I have this rich uncle ....

Originally Posted by thunder

I think there are many more poisons than Warfarin used for rats nowadays. I would definitely be wary of using rat poison where any other animal could pick it up.

henrya

[naturelover]

i have give up with my rats,as you know i have a rat problem this is how i found wab,i invested in the rat scarer worked for a while now there back,i dont see any rats just holes under my decking,they live off of fish pellets and sunflower seed, i have now stopped feeding the birds but i cant stop feeding my fish they look for me every morning,i will not use poisons or traps so they will just have to get on with it.

[Gaina]

If you have absolutely no alternative to killing the rats, then a well known pest control company (I'm sure you know the one I mean and can search online for it ) recently received an award from PETA (oh the irony!) for their 'RADAR Pestconnect' system that humanely euthanises the rat without prolonged suffering.

My friend rescues domestic rats and I know from talking to her warfarin is an extremely unpleasant way for any animal to die .

[juliejam]

Across the way from me there is a rat problem , I know this as my Cats sometimes bring them back...Ive spoken to a neighbour and apparently her dog had to make a visit to the vets after eating some of the poison..so i can imagine that with a little Hedgehog the out come might be more deadly ...

Julie

[wildliferescuer]

Poisoning leads to a horrible death but I appreciate that sometimes it is a last resort, but it is a criminal offence to place poison anywhere that any animal other than the target species can get hold of it. Therefore if it is put somewhere that Hedgehogs can get to, you would be commiting an offence. There are purpose-made baiting stations available which are basically plastic boxes with small tunnels leading into it that only rats & mice can get into. Hedgehogs & other wildlife cannot get access to the poison.

[werdnal]

Its not just eating the actual bait that can cause problems. "Poisoined" rats and mice will go away to die - they don't just pop-their-clogs in convenient places for you to pick up and dispose of them. Therefore, other animals - cats, dogs, foxes, buzzards, owls etc - will pick up a baited carcass to eat and be "secondary" poisoned. I would only use bait in very extreme cases. Traps are very effective and if set up correctly can be the most humane way to deal with them.

[paulchandler6]

I would not use poison of any sort personally. Would try to trap them humanely and relocate to a safe distance away from any habitations. Cheers

[fisherontheriver]

After a recent experience with rats coming into my house from my garden. Not nice having rats running around the house and being woken in the middle of the night by your Jack Russell chasing them and smashing the house up.
I tried many methods humane traps, ultra sonic, normal rat traps, and sticky pads. I have had to resort to using poison as they where coming into my house and that seems to be the only thing that has worked. Rats can carry some nasty diseases and are urinating almost constantly (not nice on kitchen unit)
I believe the poisons I used affects the digestive system and that poisons that are warfarin based can only be use by professionals.
But caution should always be taken to avoid the possibility of the poison being taken by other animals that are not the target. You should even consider other animals that would eat the dead rat should they find it these include foxes, birds of prey, cats and dogs,

[Meles meles]

You could always try contacting rentokil, They have those little boxs with the poison contained inside, The idea being that the Hedgehogs would not be able to fit inside the hole,

[naturelover]

Originally Posted by Gaina

If you have absolutely no alternative to killing the rats, then a well known pest control company (I'm sure you know the one I mean and can search online for it ) recently received an award from PETA (oh the irony!) for their 'RADAR Pestconnect' system that humanely euthanises the rat without prolonged suffering.

My friend rescues domestic rats and I know from talking to her warfarin is an extremely unpleasant way for any animal to die .

hi i agree with what you say,i know about warfarin nothing should die so horrid my rats dont cause me any trouble only making holes under my decking,i was filling them in but i dont even do that now because i realise they use the same hole if you leave it,i dont know if i would feel the same if it was outside my patio doors but it isnt its right down the bottom of the garden,i think the reason i have them is my birds, they think they can get a free meal but they cant because the avery is built on concreat dosnt stop them trying though.

[wellerjam]

Many thanks for all your help.

I decided to go for a standard trap, perhaps the safest way to deal with the pest alone.

We keep 2 bird feeders in the garden so have had no to the supply of mice.

Part of me feels quite sad when I find them dead in the mornings, lesser of two evils though, I would rather they died than my 18 month old girl eats mouse poop from the garden.

thanks again

Rob

[Cazzie]

Erm... so where they mice or rats then?

[Meles meles]

Originally Posted by Cazzie

Erm... so where they mice or rats then?

going by the fact that wellerjam's last post stated "mouse" twice, think they may have decided it to be a mouse.

[Cazzie]

Yes but initally it was rats or mice and seeing as it was mice, then I think there really wasn't any need (in my mind) to trap them.

[Meles meles]

Originally Posted by Cazzie

Yes but initally it was rats or mice and seeing as it was mice, then I think there really wasn't any need (in my mind) to trap them.

I agree, but after the other day i realised that some people dont think like us cazzie.
Some may be bird watchers, flower lovers etc and simply dont want any form of mammal in their garden, (like my dad and stepmum)

[naturelover]

some people are funny about rats and mice, as long as they stay outside i dont see the problem myself, as soon as they hear you they hide anyway, never see a rat but i know i have them by the scratch marks round the avery and holes under the decking i just let them get on with it,while i have fruit on the trees and are feeding my fish i dont think they will go some how,they might move on in the colder weather who knows.

[Meles meles]

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