More Cladonias for ID Help Please

[Lancashire Lad]

Found these today, all growing on dry stone moorland walls.

No.1...........................No.2............... ............No.3..........................No.4


No's 1 & 2 were amongst the same cluster on moss covered remains of a dry stone wall (Overall cluster was about 300mm diameter).

No.3 was at a different location, but again on moss covered dry stone walling.

No.4 was amongst the loose stone debris at the foot of a collapsed dry stone wall (unfortunately deep in shade so photo not too good).

Any help towards identification would be much appreciated.

Regards
Mike.

[JennyS]

Hi again Mike, its even harder trying to figure other peoples cladonia's than my own so the suggestions below are only maybe's........

1 & 2 possibly Cladonia floerkeana

3. possibly Cladonia diversa

4. Could be Cladonia macilenta

At least they all have red apothecia's so that narrows the ID field a bit!

[Lancashire Lad]

Hi JennyS,

Your ID's certainly look promising.
I did think No.3 was C.diversa, but after getting my last Cladonia post hopelessly wrong , I decided not to risk adding the name.

On No.4, does C.macilenta usually branch as much as this? (It's not a very good photo, but some of the stalks had four or five branches at the top.

Regards
Mike.

[JennyS]

Dobson says for C. macilenta: "Podetia simple or branched without cups" but he doesn't say how much branched........ C. polydactyla can be very branched but is much wider and irregular-shaped

There are a few sites below I've come across with lots of Cladonia photos:

http://www.nasehouby.cz/clanky/artic...ge_id=cladonia

Cladonia in the Netherlands

Forest Lichens of New Zealand

though not all the species shown occur in the UK or Ireland

[Lancashire Lad]

Thanks JennyS.

I've actually bought Dobson, but most of the time I am finding it difficult to pin things down from his photos. If I think I've got a reasonable idea, I try to cross reference with photo's on the web. (Including your own site - very useful ).

I appreciate though, that a lot of these things might need chemical testing and microscopy etc., and realise there will be many occasions where just using photos, I won't get near to certainty on ID's.

But hopefully, the more photo's I see, (and the more live specimens), at least some of the relevant things might start to fall into place.

Regards
Mike.

[JennyS]

I've actually bought Dobson, but most of the time I am finding it difficult to pin things down from his photos. If I think I've got a reasonable idea, I try to cross reference with photo's on the web.

Me too!
I got his Lichen Identify CD key too, mainly in the hope of larger and clearer photo's than in the book, but frustratingly a lot of them aren't that great either - and I've always been pretty hopeless keying things out at the best of times.

I reckon the more I look at and compare different photos the more aware of the details and differences I'm becoming.
Trouble is I get so used to seeing them up big on screen I forget how small they are when I go and try to re-find something....... and then I find I've left the bottles of K and C behind....

[AlanS]

Hi Mike,

VERY nice photographs and possibly VERY interesting.

Sorry to disagree with Jenny, but 1& 2 are not C. floerkeana as that species does not form cups. The most common grey species with red apothecia and cups is C. polydactlya, but I have been trying to look at the podetial surface at the highest magnification the forum offers, as it might be something much less common. Regretably I cannot quite make out the detail needed.

Please do not treat this as a definite ID, as it would need chemical testing and close examination at higher power, but your photographs are remarkably like C. borealis, which is a rare (but probably overlooked) upland species in Britain.
You don't give any idea of location but could this have been up in the Pennines?
If not C. borealis, then it is C. polydactyla. I hope you won't mind my sending you a PM on this.


3. Yes, I agree, C. diversa. More yellow-green in colour than 1 & 2, and clearly powdery-sorediate.


4. Tricky. No apothecia, but on the enlarged view it can be seen to have red pycnidia, so it is either C. macilenta, as Jenny suggests, or it is C. polydactyla in a pre-cup stage. The degree of branching suggests C. polydactyla but even the experts agree that the two species commonly cannot be told apart when juvenile.


Alan

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by JennyS

Me too!.....I reckon the more I look at and compare different photos the more aware of the details and differences I'm becoming.....

Yes, I'm hoping I can begin to see the differences by keep looking at as many photo's, (of confirmed ID's that is), that I can find.

I don't know whether they would be of any interest to you, but I bought half a dozen laminated lichen guides from the Field Studies Council. I'm finding them quite useful, and quite reasonably priced too.

They were: -
Urban Lichens 1 (on trees and wood)
Urban Lichens 2 (on stone and soil)
Lichens on Twigs
Lichens on Heaths and Moors
Common Churchyard Lichens
Rocky Shore Lichens

Regards
Mike.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by AlanS

Hi Mike,

VERY nice photographs and possibly VERY interesting.....You don't give any idea of location but could this have been up in the Pennines?....Alan

Hi Alan,

Yes it was near a location named Lower Ormerods (A derelict farmhouse) very close to Calf Hey reservoir, on the Pennine moors between Blackburn and Haslingden.

I can get back to the site if needs be.

I had another couple of shots if these are of any more help?


Regards
Mike.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by AlanS

Hi Mike....If not C. borealis, then it is C. polydactyla. I hope you won't mind my sending you a PM on this....Alan

Hi Alan,
By all means, send me a PM - I'm off to bed now. (need my beauty sleep ).

Regards
Mike.