Wasps steal spider's dinner

Geoff F · #1 (**permalink**) 21-09-2008, 05:50 PM

I'm sure this happens all the time but this is the first occasion when I have been watching the whole story and had a camera handy.

A few wasps were flying low over the vegetation in my S. Devon garden, obviously looking for something. Then one spoted a Meta segmenta web with an insect nicely wrapped up. It flew directly into the web, chased the spider away and after a bit of struggling managed to rip the insect from the web. Then it flew away while holding it's booty underneath.

The wasp was twisting and vigorously flapping it's wings so focusing the camera was a touch tricky; but I did manage some almost focused shots.

Another wasp searched all the nearby webs but they were empty. One became slightly over confident and tried to steal from a large Araneus diadematus web, which was a decidedly dangerous tactic. So that one came to a 'sticky end'.

Anyone else witnessed similar behaviour?

dmclean2 · #2 (**permalink**) 21-09-2008, 07:10 PM

Nice pics Geoff, well done
I haven't been so lucky to have seen anything like that,
Duncan

jb1the2 · #3 (**permalink**) 06-10-2008, 11:09 PM

Great photos and I shall be keeping an eye out for wasps stealing from spiders.

I did find this picture on google a minute ago too:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...mit_Wespe).jpg

I also had a question.

I was watching the spiders in my garden today and there were definitely Araneus, but there were also smaller spiders, orange colour, I'm afraid I can't be more specific, that were trying to chase the Araneus off the web and steal its food. A few times they were successful, other times they got chased off, facinating watching. The attacking spiders also seemed to be cutting some of the main support strands on the web, ultimately collapsing it. Interestingly the biggest of the Araneus didn't get attacked at all!

Can anyone tell me what the smaller spider might have been? And a bit more about them, life cycle, habits etc...

Many thanks

Acutipuerilis · #4 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 07:34 AM

Very interesting! I understand that scorpionflies (Mecoptera) specialise in his trick, although again I've never seen it happen.

Bruce Williams · #5 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 09:51 AM

Interesting photos and story Geoff. Judging by the fate of the second wasp this seems a particularly risky way of earning a living.

Bruce

No.9 Spider · #6 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb1the2

I also had a question.

I was watching the spiders in my garden today and there were definitely Araneus, but there were also smaller spiders, orange colour, I'm afraid I can't be more specific, that were trying to chase the Araneus off the web and steal its food. A few times they were successful, other times they got chased off, facinating watching. The attacking spiders also seemed to be cutting some of the main support strands on the web, ultimately collapsing it. Interestingly the biggest of the Araneus didn't get attacked at all!

Can anyone tell me what the smaller spider might have been? And a bit more about them, life cycle, habits etc...

Many thanks

I can't say that I have come across or read anything similar to this behaviour in spiders before. Our Mimetidae species comprising of comprise of four in the genus Ero are known as 'Pirate spiders' or 'Spider eaters' as they make no webs as adults and appear to specialise in preying on other spiders (other spiders will also prey in one another also!).
They would be the first candidate for the observations you made, but seem unlikely as they do not, as far as I know, work in groups. They attack their prey stealthily, individually and are an elusive species.
I'd be interested in further info on these smaller spiders. Are you sure they are not spiderlings, maybe dispersing and you've misread the scene. I wonder if spiderlings may also eat the web as a food source, though again I can't recall any literature to support this.
A very interesting observation nonetheless.

No.9 Spider

Venger · #7 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 03:51 PM

You sure it wasn't a male trying to mate?

Hmm I'm not I've read about any kleptoparasites native to the UK, the most obvious one would be Argyrodes which was featured in Life in the Undergrowth (a Theridiidae that was shown nicking stuff off a Nephila sp) but wasn't in the UK, (USA or Tropics)

No.9 Spider · #8 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 04:44 PM

........definitely Araneus, but there were also smaller spiders, orange colour, I'm afraid I can't be more specific, that were trying to chase the Araneus off the web and steal its food. A few times they were successful, other times they got chased off, facinating watching. The attacking spiders also seemed to be cutting some of the main support strands on the web, ultimately collapsing it.........

I think that from the info we have, and there apparently being quite a few, and given the colour orange I reckon they must be spiderlings and the adult was getting a tad miffed with it's offspring

.

No.9 Spider

dmclean2 · #9 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 05:31 PM

I Believe some spiderlings eat the female (mother)
but she usualy dies first, before they start.
Duncan

jb1the2 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 07:21 PM

Right, well I saw them again today, and am now regretting not having got my camera, but I shall try to take a picture tomorrow.

The hunting spiders were doing so seperately, I think it just happened that there was one on either side of the same web at the time.

Today there was no prey in the web, and the orange spider was just sat at the far edge of the web with Araneus in the middle.

The smaller spider (the hunter) has disproportionally longer front 2 legs than back 2.

I hadn't expected such a prolific response! Many thanks.

I checked the suggested species and pictures but didn't see anything that looked that similar!

jb1the2 · #11 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 07:30 PM

Here we go, taken in the dark and with not a very good camera!

I'll try to get some better ones in the morning!

Geoff F · #12 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 07:52 PM

But, am I correct in saying . . .

Araneus spiderlings appear in the spring, although some types of young spiders do eat the dead mother.

'Pirate' spiders are so called because of the 'pirates face' visible on their abdomen. They attack and eat (suck dry) the web occupant not steal food. But, so far, I've never seen one.

Jb1the2's description does sound a bit like over enthusiastic males trying to compete with each other for the right to mate with the female.

Recently I was watching mating with Meta segmenta (90% sure of ID) in my garden. The male waits until the female is eating before approaching. There was some coming and going from side to side as the female kept holding a captured fly then retreated from it as the male advanced only to return and claim her dinner once again. This happened several times.

The male was a bit too eager and the female didn't appear too sure of his intentions. Eventually she settled down to the fly and he managed to find a better position. Then he rotated around the female several times.

Eventually he disappeared very quickly. Just dropped out of the web and scarpered. Going by the speed of his exit, I was expecting to see a large 'husband' spider coming through the door.

Initial meeting 'I think you have lovely legs, legs, legs,legs.'

Getting more physical.

It was a bit of a dark spot so I had to use flash which was a bit slow when he was rushing around the female. Took several images but not really sure when was 'the moment'.

Have seen this happening before with this species but not with a camera handy.

Geoff.

No.9 Spider · #13 (**permalink**) 07-10-2008, 11:54 PM

Having seen the photo's I think that Geoff is on the money with this one. The spiders in the photo are Meta/Metellina sp. female at top with prey and male lower down in the photo.
As Geoff has already fairly accurately described his observations regarding this species (99% I'd say Geoff, not 90%!), I think this what jb1the2 has seen, with 2 males competing.
Though there are a few odd or unusual behavioural characteristics associated with courtship and mating in spiders, Meta/Metellina species are noted for those described by Geoff.
Bristowe noted in his observations many years ago that males of this species would wait patiently on the female's web perimeter, and their approach to the female would only be triggered by prey landing in the web, as opposed to the approach being made when the female was already distracted eating her prey.
The garden spider must just have a web in the way, or is it a large Meta/Metellina female? Can you get a picture of her?

No.9 Spider

Jason Green · #14 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb1the2

Can anyone tell me what the smaller spider might have been? And a bit more about them, life cycle, habits etc...

Many thanks

The pic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jb1the2

Hi jb1the2,

I wondered if the spiders you've photographed are in fact Long-jawed Orb Weavers? Yes they are orange, but have extended abdomens and longer-than-normal front legs. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong

Venger · #15 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:14 AM

As No.9 mentioned earlier, these are Meta/Metellina sp, abdomens on Tetragnatha sp are longerand narrower and the have large chelicera (jaws)

No.9 Spider · #16 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:17 AM

They're definitely not Tetragnatha sp. and are probably M. segmentata at a guess.

No.9 Spider

Jason Green · #17 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venger

As No.9 mentioned earlier, these are Meta/Metellina sp, abdomens on Tetragnatha sp are longerand narrower and the have large chelicera (jaws)

Oh, already ID'd. I wasn't dissagreeing, I thought the IDs given were for Geoff F's pictures. Sorry

jb1the2 · #18 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:27 AM

I would be inclined to agree (especially looking at Geoff's pictures, thank you!) that it does sound like the male and female courting ritual. I shall try to observe them for longer tomorrow and investigate further!

Many thanks for all your replies, very informative!

I shall try to take some more pictures too.

Further to the start of this thread, just found this

Venger · #19 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Oh, already ID'd. I wasn't dissagreeing, I thought the IDs given were for Geoff F's pictures. Sorry

Wasn't having a go Jason

It's the problem of having 3 things in one thread - not sure which post is to which question

Dutchess · #20 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 01:49 AM

Well, to answer Geoff's original question (I am not qualified to answer any other on this thread anyhoo

)

"Anyone else witnessed similar behaviour?"

Yes, I have. I don't know why, but I always seem to catch those wasps up to something. Not only have I seen them nick the spider's cache, but also witnessed them actively patrolling the larch laps looking for spiders themselves tucked away under the ridges. I have seen tussles take place and the wasp subsequently carry the unfortunate spider off

I guess to the wasp, a spider is a sitting duck - if it's small enough.

Excellent captures Geoff. I really wish I had a better camera, I see some pretty nasty goings-on when sitting in my 'erb garden! I've said it before, but the really fun bit for me is watching those little courageous male spiders, trying desperately to woo the big fat ladies without becoming the next item on the menu. Bless 'em.

D.

Jason Green · #21 (**permalink**) 08-10-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venger

Wasn't having a go Jason

It's the problem of having 3 things in one thread - not sure which post is to which question

I know

BTW That's to #19...

Geoff F · #22 (**permalink**) 09-10-2008, 07:12 PM

Regarding jb1the2's question about possible mating spiders.

I was looking at a mature female Meta segmenta in it's web today and lurking on the extreme web edge was a male. Obviously waiting for the female to catch something and be 'otherwise engaged' while he approached. I will try to see if he is still about tomorrow.

For spiders, sex appears to include a lot of hanging around and waiting hopefully; just like when I was a young man!