What's the buzz on this one?

[jezlee]

Bee expert required ... apply below!

I think this is a Cuckoo Bee - but which one? Possibly B.vestalis? B.bohemicus? B.sylvestris?

Blimey, I find these difficult ....

[Alan]

I think I can see signs of a yellow ring around the top of the abdomen, just under the bees left wing. This would mean B. Vestalis wouldn't it as B. Bohemicus has the ring on the thorax base, while B. Sylvestris doesn't have central ring as such. Or is that over simplifying it?

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by Alan

I think I can see signs of a yellow ring around the top of the abdomen, just under the bees left wing. This would mean B. Vestalis wouldn't it as B. Bohemicus has the ring on the thorax base, while B. Sylvestris doesn't have central ring as such. Or is that over simplifying it?

Where's the pic gone? It's disappeared off my first post!

Or is it just me?

Thanks for the input, Alan - it actually looks remarkably like a picture in my book of B. Bohemicus for what it's worth, with the faint yellow band around the top of the abdomen and yellow patches at the sides where the white meets the black, although in this case they pretty well meet up in the middle of the abdomen!

I think the jury's still out on this one ....

[Alan]

What book you looking at Jez?

Mines: Field Guide to Bumblebees of GB & I, Edwards/Jenner.

The trouble is, the colour keys often don't match the photos! That's what I meant by over simplification. Depending on which book and illustratin/photo you're looking at, there's always a difference.

The bane of insects ID!!

Please apply within: Insect ID'er needed, please only apply if you've got vast experience lol!

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by Alan

What book you looking at Jez?

Mines: Field Guide to Bumblebees of GB & I, Edwards/Jenner.

The trouble is, the colour keys often don't match the photos! That's what I meant by over simplification. Depending on which book and illustratin/photo you're looking at, there's always a difference.

The bane of insects ID!!

Please apply within: Insect ID'er needed, please only apply if you've got vast experience lol!

Same book as you, Alan!!

Which just proves the point about these things being so difficult to ID, doesn't it?

[Alan]

Originally Posted by jezlee

Same book as you, Alan!!

Which just proves the point about these things being so difficult to ID, doesn't it?

Do you think we should take up specimen collecting?

Or stick to book collecting?

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by Alan

Do you think we should take up specimen collecting?

Or stick to book collecting?

I rather like the idea of book collecting ....

I've just been poring over the book again .... and I still keep coming back to bohemicus ...

[eucera]

where was the pic taken? B. vestalis is typically found across lowland England and Wales whereas B. bohemicus is more northern. If the pic is from Southern England B. bohemicus is rather unlikely. The only way to separate the males (and this is a male) with confidence is to compare the relative length of Antennal segments 3 & 5. In vestalis 5 is much longer than 3 and in bohemicus they are of equal length!

[Alan]

Thanks eucera

Ok a male has a somewhat squared off abdomen, and it has relatively longer antenna (13 segments) compared to females (12 segments). The tibia is narrower as well. These are correct?

The trouble is, I have difficulty counting the segments on this pic because they’re slightly out of focus So find it hard to know which segments are the 3rd and 5th!

Over to you Jez

[Imaginos]

Originally Posted by Alan

Thanks eucera

Ok a male has a somewhat squared off abdomen, and it has relatively longer antenna (13 segments) compared to females (12 segments). The tibia is narrower as well. These are correct?

And they usually have yellow faces-a much easier trait to look for.

Originally Posted by Alan

The trouble is, I have difficulty counting the segments on this pic because they’re slightly out of focus So find it hard to know which segments are the 3rd and 5th!

Over to you Jez

Especially with the first segments obscured by the head, got any front-on shots?

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by eucera

where was the pic taken? B. vestalis is typically found across lowland England and Wales whereas B. bohemicus is more northern. If the pic is from Southern England B. bohemicus is rather unlikely. The only way to separate the males (and this is a male) with confidence is to compare the relative length of Antennal segments 3 & 5. In vestalis 5 is much longer than 3 and in bohemicus they are of equal length!

Hi eucera, the photo was taken in North Shropshire, so is bohemicus a possibility? I will have a look tonight and see if I have another shot, but don't hold your breath ....

[eucera]

In short... In Salop its a definite possibility... but can not be much more certain that that