where will the Beetles go ?

[Toby]

came across a poem by Philip Larkin today, had a verse relevant to this thread:

And that will be England gone,
The shadows, the meadows, the lanes,
The guildhalls, the carved choirs.
There'll be books; it will linger on
In galleries; but all that remains
For us will be concrete and tyres.


from Going, Going 1972

[Ferret]

Its no use blaming the Government, it is us and our consumer society that causes the problem we all want things cheap and chuck it away and buy the next model in a couple of months/years. It is perfectly possible to make products that last for tens of years and are reparable and updateable, but of course it would not then be the latest model. Would you keep the same car for 30/50 years and just replace parts as they need it i.e. a more efficient engine or part of when that makes sense rather than a completely new car. Will you pay more for food and products so that people in other countries have the same pay levels that you have then there would not be any economic migrants. What I am saying really is will you adjust your standard of living plus save up for years for things that cost a lot more but will literally last a lifetime.
And don’t get me wrong I am no better than anyone else I want the best for ME today, I want it to be cheap and good quality and if that mean it, or the materials it is made of, are obtained cheaply at somebody else’s cost and personal expense I don’t ask to many question and turn a blind eye because I have what I want.
Sorry about the rant but if we want things to change we have realy got to look closely at how we live and were the blame really lies and be prepared to drastically change the way we live. Are you prepared to do that! I am not sure I am! Governments are voted in by us and make the decision that they think will make us vote them in again.

[demicav]

Originally Posted by Toby

came across a poem by Philip Larkin today, had a verse relevant to this thread:

And that will be England gone,
The shadows, the meadows, the lanes,
The guildhalls, the carved choirs.
There'll be books; it will linger on
In galleries; but all that remains
For us will be concrete and tyres.


from Going, Going 1972

Never a more true word spoken.

[Toby]

[quote=Will you pay more for food and products so that people in other countries have the same pay levels that you have then there would not be any economic migrants. QUOTE]


If only it was that simple. Nigeria for example has had some $400 billion in oil revenue since 1962 - has it made any difference to ordinary people there - not a jot, all squandered on luxury living for the gangsters that run the country. Corruption in Africa and many other countries is endemic, no amount of reform will reduce migrantion until this is tackled.
Certainly poor countries should not be growing cash crops to pay huge debts incurred by their crappy governments instead of feeding themselves but the way things are debt cancellation will make little difference.

[Ferret]

Toby, I fully agree it is not that simple, this is a fantastically complex and convoluted problem, as an example on the face of it it makes sense for me to run my driving school car on Bio fuel, but then I find out that this fuel is at least partially made from palm oil that it being grown in Borneo where they are destroying vast tracts of rain forest to grow the palms, so perhaps my idea is not such a good one after all. I have decided that teaching/influencing my students to drive in an economical way, most people can reduce there vehicles fuel consumption by about one third with very little if any affect on there journey times, will do a lot more to reduce carbon pollution than me using bio fuel.
We complain that new house are being built on farm land rather than brown field sites but often the brown field sites although not as aesthetically pleasing have a much greater bio diversity and also support some of our rarest invertebrates. Perhaps we should put our efforts into demanding that the new houses have triple glazing, top grade insulation, solar panels and any other improvements we can think of.
But if we do not start working out and making these decisions nothing will change, we are driving towards a cliff and nobody is applying the brakes. Is it our greed for these ‘third world’ countries biological and mineral recourses that allows the greed of these gangsters and corrupt governments?