A couple of wasps for ID

[nutmeg]

I've been wasp-watching the past couple of days.

The first wasps were going in and out of an underground hole, removing small stones. I think they're Vespula germanica, but wanted to check:






The second wasp was not doing much at all on a leaf during an overcast part of the day. I'm thinking a Dolichovespula because of the elongated face, but wasn't sure which:








Any help appreciated.

[poschiavanus]

Wow, I had to do lots of revision before posting!

I'd agree that the first is V. germanica. I think the second is D. saxonica.

I haven't checked all the features 'cos two useful papers are buried away upstairs, but saxonica is supposed to have two yellow spots behind the eyes, one largish one towards the top of the eye and a small one near the base of the eye, whereas D. norvegica apparently only has a single spot towards the top of the eye which is smaller. Hairs on the thorax are also different colours. Beware, I'm very rusty on these.

[nutmeg]

Thanks Posch.

I too have spent ages trying to work out the second one and tending towards saxonica, but just am not familiar enough to have a good feel for it even when staring at descriptions and illustrations!