2 Bumblebees for ID if possible

[beech]

I dont know if either of these can be positively identified by the pics provided. I suspect the first is possibly a dark worker variant of either terrestris or lucorum. The second I think by its size is a queen, but I cannot id it. Any thoughts or suggestions welcome

Thanks

[Matt Smith]

For the first one, the face appears to be too long for B.lucorum/terrestris, my initial thought is a faded dark form B.hortorum.

Second one is a slightly faded B.lucorum.

[beech]

Thanks Matt it was a real shame I could not get some good pics of the first bee it was just too quick and I had the wrong shutter speed on the camera but it was a real beauty

[Kate_Izzy]

Hi,
I'm just interested in what identifies the 2nd one as lucorum as opposed to terrestris as to me it looks to have a slight brown band at the top of the white - although I suppose if it's a queen then it should be all a buff colour

I'm very new to identifying Bombus so any help appreciated

[Matt Smith]

Originally Posted by Kate_Izzy

Hi,
I'm just interested in what identifies the 2nd one as lucorum as opposed to terrestris as to me it looks to have a slight brown band at the top of the white - although I suppose if it's a queen then it should be all a buff colour

As you say, if it was a queen B.terrestris then the tail would be an obvious brown-buff colour. We are told this is a "queen sized" insect and we have a nice clean white tail here, if it were a faded buff colour it would look a little "dirty".

The one we have here is a somewhat faded specimen. I can see what you mean by "a slight brown band" but this is usually very narrow. I think what we have here may in fact be due to the sun bleached nature of the animal, where the black hairs have faded to brown somewhat and we see the tips overlying the white of the tail giving the impression of a band. Overall, the general look of the bee is of a "big" B.lucorum.

[Kate_Izzy]

Thank you
I'm guessing a lot of the skills needed to identify creatures come with experience