Panorpa sp. plus one other for ID help please

[jaybie]

Is there any way to identify the species (P. cognata or P. communis) from the images?



This one I have no idea



Any help greatly appreciated, JohnB

[Geoff F]

Firstly, John.

Panorpa males can just be identified from a really good close shot of their rear ends, but females need dissection.

And finally, that other fly is one of the Robber Flies (Asilidae) - at least that is my opinion.

I do have some ID Keys but I'm not experienced with this family and they can be a bit tricky. So, initially, let's see if an expert can recognise it outright.

[JRsbugs]

The robberfly will be one of two, Neoitamus cothurnatus or Neoitamus cyanurus.

I have what is most like the latter, Neoitamus cothurnatus is much rarer.

From what I have found from an expert is the front metatarsus is the key clue. Yours has pale brown halters and on the legs, I have seen these for three years now and they have always had bright yellow on the legs and halters. I have seen both male and female, and got pics but have seen the female more, one showed up a couple of days ago.

Yours is a male, I would guess at it being Neoitamus cyanurus but that is not for certain. Take a look and see what the other species looks like,

BioLib - Asilinae - Obrázek - Neoitamus cothurnatus

One of my females..

Diptera.info - Discussion Forum: Asilid Neoitamus cyanurus?

The Panorpa...as Geoff says, females are supposed to be only identifiable by dissection but I have looked into these along with good advice from someone who has studied them in great detail. However, as there can be a lot of variability in the wing patters unless they are obvious I wouldn't like to say but it's either P. germanica or P. communis.

Janet

[jaybie]

Geoff/Janet - Thanks for the help
JohnB