3 Hoverflies for ID please

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Preeeeee-zactly! Some are field-identifiable, but as with a lot of Lacewings/Hymenopterans (to name just two) closer scrutiny is required. Some can even be knocked-out then released later on.

If a species could be 'pushed over the brink' by an individual being taken, then it was never worth saving in the first place. They often have only a few weeks in them, anyway.

It's been said in professionally-written and peer-reviewed keys that taking some from colonies of rarities would have no effect on them even locally. True. The critical thing to understand is that the sustainability of colonies is based largely on the needs of the species as opposed to the dependence of every individual within that group. After all, think of natural predation, etc.

How many weeks do you have left in you Jason? I think you are a rarity, and to take you would make no difference (well, personally I think it would! ).

Is there a Jason-sized jar we can put him in and douse him with alcohol? Is he worth saving? ROFLOL!!!

OK, so I have had a little wine..

[Jason Green]

Have some coffee...

[JRsbugs]

Copyinig my post from the other thread to the correct thread..

I meant to say in my last post that it is not and cannot be true that individual species being taken locally will not make any difference to a species survival. We usually, or should, as human beings look at what has happened in history. Collectors are the main reason often for extinction of a species! They collect a few for their own collection, because it is rare and desirable (to them!). They might even collect a few for their friends and friend's friends collections, which I know goes on even now. If this happens in the few localities where a rarity is known to be, and localitites are shouted all over the place so people do know where they can find them, then who is to say that in each of these localities there will not be at least one and probaly more persons trying to collect these! Humans are not so much into conservation as you might think in general! History gives a loud and clear message. (This should have been on the other thread! It's the wine..)


And this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Green
History. Exactly that. I think you're being rather flippant in suggesting collectors have ever had a big part in extinctions. Everyone know it's development, climate change and changing farming practices that have done this.

Don't forget far less was known about them then, than it is now. We have a lot to thank Victorian collectors for - a lot of the VC-lists are built on their findings, they were often the pioneers who's work we have been able to build on. Are you aware of any studies that have been carried out by neutral and respectable bodies who have proven any links between Victorian collectors and extinct species, who weren't already on the brink for whatever reason? It may be best if you hold-off the battering until you have some more factual work to base it on - rather than sound as if you've just read some way-OTT stuff somewhere.

Of course, the only ones who usually bring-up this old Victorian stuff are photographers who are trying to identify difficult groups photographically - then fight against the ones who have put in the real leg-work, who point out the difficulties/impossibilities of it.

Pffftttttt! Now that is condescending Jason! Maybe you haven't been around long enough to pick up all the instances of man's folly... maybe your mind is saturated with the good you think you are doing.... give yourself a lifetime to see what is really happening and you might start to think differently!

[Jason Green]

So... can you find me a respectable study that has proven a link, as opposed to adding more subjective conjecture?

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

So... can you find me a respectable study that has proven a link, as opposed to adding more subjective conjecture?

I do nothing subjective, Jason, I only do objective.

BTW, are you not capable of searching for these yourself? I have logged them in my mind over many years, you know, the age is experience thing.

But, as a concession to you, I have found some links which is about man's obsessioin with money, in the past it has often been to do with fame or both money and fame.

Endangered Animals: We are Responsible | Life as i know it

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/zoodirectory/extinct.htm

Animal Extinction and Endangerment, Main Causes

Answers.com - How many types of animals have gone extinct because of humans

Extinct and Endangered Animals, Endangered and Extinct Animals

Need more? This was only the first in the list!

[JRsbugs]

If you find it easier Jason, there's a pie chart on this site..

ECOLOGY

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

BTW, are you not capable of searching for these yourself? I have logged them in my mind over many years, you know, the age is experience thing.

I certainly am - but you raised this point impassionately. I am therefor sure that you could provide me with a copy of the basis for your thinking. So far, you can't.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

But, as a concession to you, I have found some links which is about man's obsessioin with money, in the past it has often been to do with fame or both money and fame.

I'm asking about neither man's obsession with money nor fame. Whaaat?? Just the effect you claim the Victorians had on extinctions at the time, that were brought about solely by their collecting. All your links have done is outlined the reasons I gave - development and that. Seems I should have added the accidental addition of alien species to my list! So, a bit of an inadvertent thank-you is in order there.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Need more? This was only the first in the list!

Yes, but relevant material this time. That lot was a bit of an own-goal!

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

. So far, you can't.

Total rubbish

[i] Just the effect you claim the Victorians had on extinctions at the time, that were brought about solely by their collecting.

Who made this claim Jason?

I'm not going to answer to a person who seems not to understand anything.

I hereby solemly declare that I shall no longer talk to a brick wall. That might be difficult, we are surrounded by brick walls, and by their very nature they will never understand because they happen to be brick walls and will remain that way.

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

I'm asking about neither man's obsession with money nor fame. Whaaat?? Just the effect you claim the Victorians had on extinctions at the time, that were brought about solely by their collecting.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Who made this claim Jason?

Well, you'd stated:

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Collectors are the main reason often for extinction of a species!

So, you! Point proven though, I think - you can't find a study to prove this, the notion just tends to reverberate without a traceable source. A nice place to leave it

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Well, you'd stated:
So, you! Point proven though, I think - you can't find a study to prove this, the notion just tends to reverberate without a traceable source. A nice place to leave it

So history has no place in the mind of Jason, my advice to anyone is not to listen to the likes of Jason.

For anyone wondering what Jason had originally written before he edited it:

---Quote (Originally by Jason Green)---
I'm asking about neither man's obsession with money nor fame. Whaaat?? Just the effect you claim the Victorians had on extinctions at the time, that were brought about solely by their collecting.
---End Quote---

---Quote (Originally by JRsbugs)---
Who made this claim Jason?
---End Quote---
Well, ou'd asked:


---Quote (Originally by JRsbugs)---
Collectors are the main reason often for extinction of a species!
---End Quote---
So, you! Point proven though, I think. A nice place to leave it
***************

It's in the thread notification email.

A place to leave it yes, not so sure about the nice part.