Mediteranian Bee sighting in the uk

violetcarpenterbee · #1 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:29 PM

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

GuyF · #2 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Hi Derek, welcome to the site,
Are Violet Carpenter Bees those huge blacks ones that you see around the mediterranean? It sounds like a pretty impressive find and your lucky to have them in your garden.
Guy

Wild-Woman · #3 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

Wow Derrick that sounds really exciting-in your garden too!
Welcome to WAB by the way. Nice to have you here.

aeshna5 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

Excellent stuff- I'd certainly get a photo for positive ID + to inform the the recording scheme with:

BWARS Home Page

which is acronym for the bee, wasp + ant recording scheme- Eucera would be our expert on these insects. I've seen these fantastic insects many times overseas but not in UK.

They have been recorded several times before in this country , but haven't been recorded breeding. According to an article in December's British Wildlife this species was seen + photographed in 3 widely separated locations last summer; 2 of the sites being in the north.

I suspect this species is a potential colonist to UK. What part of the country are you based in?

eucera · #5 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 09:51 PM

VERY interesting indeed!! Both sexes overwinter but there is NO evidence of any overwintering in UK to date.

They do occur in the Med area (there are 3 black species there) but X. violacea is also found much further north and is apparently moving northwards - I guess it is only a matter of time before they make a real impact here. X. valga looks almost identical and is Red-Listed over much of its non-Mediterranean range.

I would certainly need to see pics (as many as possible) to confirm the id - we have had many false starts with this one!!

Stuart

violetcarpenterbee · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 11:37 AM

re. violet carpenter bees in answer to some of your qestions, these bees are nesting in an old apple tree stump in leicestershire post code le12 9ae.they were around last year, i spotted them flying around one sunny day in dec. then again in the sunny weather last week.at the weekend when I had got a camera ready they did not come out,but I spoted them inside the holes they have made in the tree trunk, but when you move close to take a picture they disapear inside the tree trunk. I will continue to try and get a picture but they only come out when the weather is sunny and warm. Of course I cannot be 100% certain these are violet carpenter bees as I am no expert on bees at all,but all the people that have seen them agree with me ,that they look exactly like the pictures of them that can be found on the internet, if any bee expert lives in my aera they are quite welcome to come and see for themselves. regards DERICK . .

eucera · #7 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 12:44 PM

Hi!

Thanks for the update. I think pics would be an absolute essential first stage in getting anywhere near an identification. This is such an unusual record (in fact unique) in Britain that we obviously need to exercise some caution. If you could get some pics they should be recognisable, and then I might be able to suggest an expert from your area goes to have a look. BWARS (BWARS Home Page) has several active members in the Leicester area, and also the former Chairman of the Society who lives in Loughborough.

With best wishes, Stuart

nightshade · #8 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 01:34 PM

Hello Derrick,Although these are an important find (as others
have already said) just relax and enjoy the find.If you relax
so will the bees,just sit near to the tree let them get used
to your presence

eucera · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightshade

Although these are an important find (as others
have already said)..........

Well... we don't know yet if they ARE an important find do we? Lets keep our fingers crossed though!

od0man · #10 (**permalink**) 09-02-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Well... we don't know yet if they ARE an important find do we? Lets keep our fingers crossed though!

I can't think what else it could be confused with - other than Anthophora plumipes, which has clear rather than violet wings, is a little smaller, usually appears in March and favours nesting in the ground or soft mortar. So this is rather unlikely!
This is potentially very exciting given most sightings so far have been on the south coast.
Oh, by the way, high everyone! Just joined and this is my first post; what an exciting first thread to be involved with

Cheers,
Steve.

aeshna5 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by od0man

I can't think what else it could be confused with - other than Anthophora plumipes, which has clear rather than violet wings, is a little smaller, usually appears in March and favours nesting in the ground or soft mortar. So this is rather unlikely!
This is potentially very exciting given most sightings so far have been on the south coast.
Oh, by the way, high everyone! Just joined and this is my first post; what an exciting first thread to be involved with

Cheers,
Steve.

Welcome Steve- yes this is a potentially exciting thread, though best to err on side of caution until we have the evidence. I would have thought mis-identification with Anthophora was unlikely- I would say they are much smaller. It's one of the few solitary bees I can confidently ID; they're regular in my garden visiting the Pulmonarias in early spring. The male resembles Bombus pascourum in general colour but the flight + high-pitched buzz is totally different to any bumblebee!

Let's hope we get some photos on here of the possible Xylocopa!

od0man · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeshna5

Welcome Steve- yes this is a potentially exciting thread, though best to err on side of caution until we have the evidence. I would have thought mis-identification with Anthophora was unlikely- I would say they are much smaller. It's one of the few solitary bees I can confidently ID; they're regular in my garden visiting the Pulmonarias in early spring. The male resembles Bombus pascourum in general colour but the flight + high-pitched buzz is totally different to any bumblebee!

Let's hope we get some photos on here of the possible Xylocopa!

I have a photo of one that I took in Kefalonia two years ago that may be of use for comparison. It's at:
VioletCarpenterBee.Kefalonia.07-06-05 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cheers,
Steve.

eucera · #13 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 01:46 PM

What a lovely pic of a female Xylocopa. However, I can't be absolutely certain that this is X. violacea. Separation of females of X. violacea and the remarkably similar X. valga (also widespread but much less common) requires microscopic examination. Males are easy... providing one can see the antennae!

od0man · #14 (**permalink**) 06-03-2007, 11:17 PM

Has Lizzy confirmed that these bees are indeed X. violacea?
Cheers,
Steve.

eucera · #15 (**permalink**) 06-03-2007, 11:51 PM

Lizzy has seen the bees and confirmed that they are Xylocopa. Lizzy was unable to catch one for close scrutiny or get close enough to see the antennae for herself. She will be returning in April for another look, accompanied by another Leicester BWARS member.

However, I have looked long and hard at the pics (number 2 is easily the clearest) and so has Nigel Jones, and we are satisfied that the preapical antennal segments (11-12) are reddish (and therefore paler) than the rest of the antenna. This marks the specimen that is in the pic as a male X. violacea. Both Nigel and I have considerable experience of the species (I have seen thousands, literally), and we are quite happy that this determination is sound.

Stuart

od0man · #16 (**permalink**) 07-03-2007, 07:46 PM

That's brilliant Stuart! In an effort to see what you were talking about I took the liberty of copying that image to my photoshop, cropped and enhanced it - and sure enough even I could see the paler segments.
As others have said, I imagine there will be no way of determining whether they arrived naturally or as 'pallet escapes'. Is there any potential conflict with native bee species or do they have their own unique niche?
Cheers,
Steve.

od0man · #17 (**permalink**) 16-03-2007, 01:22 AM

Hi Derick, have you managed to get any more pics of your bees yet. If so I'd love to see them.
Cheers,
Steve.

Wild-Woman · #18 (**permalink**) 16-03-2007, 07:58 AM

This has been an interesting detective story and a great thread. Very enjoyable. I have a question. Will this make Derrick's garden a SSSI?

Jules

eucera · #19 (**permalink**) 16-03-2007, 09:58 PM

Check out tomorrow's (Saturday 17 March) INDEPENDENT newspaper. A little birdie as told me that a certain bee may well be featured therein.

As far as SSSI's go... no chance!

Stuart

Wild-Woman · #20 (**permalink**) 17-03-2007, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Check out tomorrow's (Saturday 17 March) INDEPENDENT newspaper. A little birdie as told me that a certain bee may well be featured therein.

Stuart

Oh goody! guess what paper I'll be getting this morning!

Stephen Rutt · #21 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 12:12 PM

In September in Pont Farcy, Normandy,I found three half inch holes in a fencing post, one seemed in the process of being bored since it was only a quarter of an inch deep. i have rather poor resolution pictures of these. I glimpsed a bumble bee size black insect disappear into one hole but could not identify it and did not see it again. I have never seen one before. Could this be Xylocopa violacea? If so is it an unusual sighting and is it likely to use the same site as a nest next year?

eucera · #22 (**permalink**) 11-09-2007, 12:26 PM

This will almost certainly be X. violacea (which is well known in Normandy). However, all sightings are of interest to hymenopterists both here and in France. I shall pass on this information to the "Apodea Gallica" group who will be grateful.

Adult Xylocopa (both sexes) overwinter, and so the boring may be used as a hibernaculum over the winter, and very probably as a nest next year.