Mediteranian Bee sighting in the uk

violetcarpenterbee · #1 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:29 PM

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

GuyF · #2 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Hi Derek, welcome to the site,
Are Violet Carpenter Bees those huge blacks ones that you see around the mediterranean? It sounds like a pretty impressive find and your lucky to have them in your garden.
Guy

Wild-Woman · #3 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

Wow Derrick that sounds really exciting-in your garden too!
Welcome to WAB by the way. Nice to have you here.

aeshna5 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

Hi All Im new on here but thought I'd share what I think is quite a rare sighting in the uk for this time of year, just wondering if anyone else has seen or if these are quite common in the uk, the bees in question are violet carpenter bees and are currently taking up residents in an old apple tree in my garden they were there last year and have appeared to have survived the winter and were out in force today feb 01 07. I'll get my son to snap a picture tomorrow and post it up if there out.

Thanks Derick.

Excellent stuff- I'd certainly get a photo for positive ID + to inform the the recording scheme with:

BWARS Home Page

which is acronym for the bee, wasp + ant recording scheme- Eucera would be our expert on these insects. I've seen these fantastic insects many times overseas but not in UK.

They have been recorded several times before in this country , but haven't been recorded breeding. According to an article in December's British Wildlife this species was seen + photographed in 3 widely separated locations last summer; 2 of the sites being in the north.

I suspect this species is a potential colonist to UK. What part of the country are you based in?

eucera · #5 (**permalink**) 01-02-2007, 09:51 PM

VERY interesting indeed!! Both sexes overwinter but there is NO evidence of any overwintering in UK to date.

They do occur in the Med area (there are 3 black species there) but X. violacea is also found much further north and is apparently moving northwards - I guess it is only a matter of time before they make a real impact here. X. valga looks almost identical and is Red-Listed over much of its non-Mediterranean range.

I would certainly need to see pics (as many as possible) to confirm the id - we have had many false starts with this one!!

Stuart

violetcarpenterbee · #6 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 11:37 AM

re. violet carpenter bees in answer to some of your qestions, these bees are nesting in an old apple tree stump in leicestershire post code le12 9ae.they were around last year, i spotted them flying around one sunny day in dec. then again in the sunny weather last week.at the weekend when I had got a camera ready they did not come out,but I spoted them inside the holes they have made in the tree trunk, but when you move close to take a picture they disapear inside the tree trunk. I will continue to try and get a picture but they only come out when the weather is sunny and warm. Of course I cannot be 100% certain these are violet carpenter bees as I am no expert on bees at all,but all the people that have seen them agree with me ,that they look exactly like the pictures of them that can be found on the internet, if any bee expert lives in my aera they are quite welcome to come and see for themselves. regards DERICK . .

eucera · #7 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 12:44 PM

Hi!

Thanks for the update. I think pics would be an absolute essential first stage in getting anywhere near an identification. This is such an unusual record (in fact unique) in Britain that we obviously need to exercise some caution. If you could get some pics they should be recognisable, and then I might be able to suggest an expert from your area goes to have a look. BWARS (BWARS Home Page) has several active members in the Leicester area, and also the former Chairman of the Society who lives in Loughborough.

With best wishes, Stuart

nightshade · #8 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 01:34 PM

Hello Derrick,Although these are an important find (as others
have already said) just relax and enjoy the find.If you relax
so will the bees,just sit near to the tree let them get used
to your presence

eucera · #9 (**permalink**) 05-02-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightshade

Although these are an important find (as others
have already said)..........

Well... we don't know yet if they ARE an important find do we? Lets keep our fingers crossed though!

od0man · #10 (**permalink**) 09-02-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Well... we don't know yet if they ARE an important find do we? Lets keep our fingers crossed though!

I can't think what else it could be confused with - other than Anthophora plumipes, which has clear rather than violet wings, is a little smaller, usually appears in March and favours nesting in the ground or soft mortar. So this is rather unlikely!
This is potentially very exciting given most sightings so far have been on the south coast.
Oh, by the way, high everyone! Just joined and this is my first post; what an exciting first thread to be involved with

Cheers,
Steve.

aeshna5 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by od0man

I can't think what else it could be confused with - other than Anthophora plumipes, which has clear rather than violet wings, is a little smaller, usually appears in March and favours nesting in the ground or soft mortar. So this is rather unlikely!
This is potentially very exciting given most sightings so far have been on the south coast.
Oh, by the way, high everyone! Just joined and this is my first post; what an exciting first thread to be involved with

Cheers,
Steve.

Welcome Steve- yes this is a potentially exciting thread, though best to err on side of caution until we have the evidence. I would have thought mis-identification with Anthophora was unlikely- I would say they are much smaller. It's one of the few solitary bees I can confidently ID; they're regular in my garden visiting the Pulmonarias in early spring. The male resembles Bombus pascourum in general colour but the flight + high-pitched buzz is totally different to any bumblebee!

Let's hope we get some photos on here of the possible Xylocopa!

od0man · #12 (**permalink**) 10-02-2007, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeshna5

Welcome Steve- yes this is a potentially exciting thread, though best to err on side of caution until we have the evidence. I would have thought mis-identification with Anthophora was unlikely- I would say they are much smaller. It's one of the few solitary bees I can confidently ID; they're regular in my garden visiting the Pulmonarias in early spring. The male resembles Bombus pascourum in general colour but the flight + high-pitched buzz is totally different to any bumblebee!

Let's hope we get some photos on here of the possible Xylocopa!

I have a photo of one that I took in Kefalonia two years ago that may be of use for comparison. It's at:
VioletCarpenterBee.Kefalonia.07-06-05 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Cheers,
Steve.

eucera · #13 (**permalink**) 11-02-2007, 01:46 PM

What a lovely pic of a female Xylocopa. However, I can't be absolutely certain that this is X. violacea. Separation of females of X. violacea and the remarkably similar X. valga (also widespread but much less common) requires microscopic examination. Males are easy... providing one can see the antennae!

eucera · #14 (**permalink**) 14-02-2007, 10:47 AM

Any further news on these bees recently? I gather that the smaller species of Xylocopa (X. iris) is now flying in southern France.

Cheers Stuart

violetcarpenterbee · #15 (**permalink**) 14-02-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Any further news on these bees recently? I gather that the smaller species of Xylocopa (X. iris) is now flying in southern France.

Cheers Stuart

Hi Stuart
I spotted one again today but it was lurking inside one of the holes they have made in the tree trunk, tomorrow is forecast to be sunny and 11c. I wil try and get some pictures.
Derick.

eucera · #16 (**permalink**) 14-02-2007, 03:24 PM

Pics of the holes they are hiding in would be great too.... especially if I can see faces! How many holes are there? and how many bees do you think? Are they all in separate holes or in the same one/s?

Stuart

violetcarpenterbee · #17 (**permalink**) 19-02-2007, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Pics of the holes they are hiding in would be great too.... especially if I can see faces! How many holes are there? and how many bees do you think? Are they all in separate holes or in the same one/s?

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
There are about 6 holes in the tree trunk, like the one in the attached pictures. I have seen bees going in and out of them I think there is more than one bee using each hole, sorry no pics of bees yet. I think the weather needs to be a little warmer to temp them out again, I dont know how many bees there are but one day last summer I counted eight in the garden in view at the same time.

Please click on the attached links below for pictures of the holes and the tree trunk:

www.constella.co.uk/bees/hole1.jpg

www.constella.co.uk/bees/hole2.jpg

www.constella.co.uk/bees/trunk.jpg

wyevilla · #18 (**permalink**) 19-02-2007, 04:06 PM

This is a great thread - its begining to read like a detective story. Can't wait to see the little blighters!

Good luck.

eucera · #19 (**permalink**) 19-02-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

Hi Stuart,
There are about 6 holes in the tree trunk, like the one in the attached pictures. I have seen bees going in and out of them I think there is more than one bee using each hole, sorry no pics of bees yet. I think the weather needs to be a little warmer to temp them out again, I dont know how many bees there are but one day last summer I counted eight in the garden in view at the same time.

Please click on the attached links below for pictures of the holes and the tree trunk:

www.constella.co.uk/bees/hole1.jpg

www.constella.co.uk/bees/hole2.jpg

www.constella.co.uk/bees/trunk.jpg

This all looks quite encouraging really. I don't get much idea of scale with these pics of the holes, but I suspect you could, perhaps, stick your thumb into each.

It wouldn't be unusual for Xylocopa to be using the holes as communal roosts, in fact, George Else & I found no less than 7 males of X. cantabrita roosting in an empty rivet hole on a railway sleeper that was being used as a boundary post in southern Spain.

If these ARE Xylocopa, then 8 individuals in one place is a pretty remarkable observation! I can't wait to see pics when it all warms up. There are quite a lot flying now in the Paris area of France (so I heard today), so it won't be long now before your beasties take to the air.

Shots of the HEAD will be critical in determining these to species level, although any pic should enable us to sort to genus. Here is a link to X. violacea showing the diagnostically coloured sub-apical segments of the antennae of the male: Framed on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Let the sun shine!!

Stuart

eucera · #20 (**permalink**) 21-02-2007, 09:44 AM

Will today be the day?? Beautiful sunny "bumblebee" weather down here in Salisbury!

Good hunting

Stuart
ps... LOTS of Xylocopa violacea records pouring in from all over France (except the far north) - Spring is certainly sprung there now

violetcarpenterbee · #21 (**permalink**) 21-02-2007, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eucera

Will today be the day?? Beautiful sunny "bumblebee" weather down here in Salisbury!

Good hunting

Stuart
ps... LOTS of Xylocopa violacea records pouring in from all over France (except the far north) - Spring is certainly sprung there now

Hi Stuart
Its not sunny here yet, but lets hope it will come out soon. incidently the holes in the tree trunk are about 18mil in dia. hope to get some pics. for you soon.
Derick.

violetcarpenterbee · #22 (**permalink**) 21-02-2007, 03:50 PM

I went up to the tree stump today at 3pm. while I was there I saw 2 bees return to the tree trunk, why have I not pics. you might ask, the reason being they fly in and go into the holes in no time at all and disapear, not giving me time to lift the camera focus in and take a picture, at the moment there are not many flowers out for them to settle on but I will keep trying to get some pics.as I am now certain that they are violet carpenter bees after looking at other pictures on this thread.
Derick.

Paul mabbott · #23 (**permalink**) 21-02-2007, 04:57 PM

Is everyone aware that an asiatic hornet (Vespa velutina has established in France and shifting north? May not survive British winters but .....

Seems to be a serious threat to honeybees and, presumably, bumbles.
Links
Apiculture - Le frelon asiatique Vespa velutina, un nouveau prédateur de l’abeille ?

eucera · #24 (**permalink**) 21-02-2007, 05:07 PM

Vespa velutina is in the Bordeaux area... in fact... one of our BWARS members, who lives in Armagnac and took part in the huge pan-European wasp survey last summer, had them in his traps. He is a bee-keeper, but seems quite relaxed about them

Stuart

eucera · #25 (**permalink**) 25-02-2007, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

I went up to the tree stump today at 3pm. while I was there I saw 2 bees return to the tree trunk, why have I not pics. you might ask, the reason being they fly in and go into the holes in no time at all and disapear, not giving me time to lift the camera focus in and take a picture, at the moment there are not many flowers out for them to settle on but I will keep trying to get some pics.

Lets hope the better weather that is forecast for the next couple of days prizes them out, and that you are able to get some good pics

Quote:

Originally Posted by violetcarpenterbee

as I am now certain that they are violet carpenter bees after looking at other pictures on this thread.

This is the area where we should remain cautious. Although (assuming these ARE Xylocopa (and the evidence suggests they might well be) X. violacea is the most likely suspect, it is by no means the only one. As alluded to above, X. valga (widespread but rare in Europe) is virtually indistinguishable from X. violacea. We also have to bear in mind the possibility that it may be an alien species of some sort. It is only a handful of years ago that Steve Falk found X. virginica (from USA) flying around in Warwickshire, presumably brought in with wooden packing cases by the US military in the area.

I believe your part of Leicestershire is an important national hub in the road haulage industry, and there are large numbers of wooden pallets (of uncertain origin) in various transport yards areound the area. So perhaps.... bees could have come from virtually anywhere.

Lest see what the next couple of days brings, and then perhaps it might be time to get one of our BWARS team to come and have a good look (We have a committee member who works in Leicester)

Best of luck with this! Stuart