Beetle for ID

PeterD · #1 (**permalink**) 06-05-2011, 09:55 PM

Can anyone help me identify this beetle?

Thank you

Jason Green · #2 (**permalink**) 06-05-2011, 10:07 PM

Evening Peter,

Probably a female Oedemera nobilis, but could be confused with O. lurida (which in my experince has a little less sculpturing of the pronotum/better-fitting wingcases).

I think the ill-fitting wing-cases here separate these two.

Take care,

Jason

Klaas Reißmann · #3 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 04:01 AM

Hi Jason,

your second thought is the better one. Problem is, if both species occur in GB, that there is no way differ between Oedemera lurida and Oedemera virescens. It would work in the males (O. virescens male has got very thick femora, O. lurida doesn't), but this one can be female or O. lurida male. We would need the genitalia.

Regards
Klaas

PeterD · #4 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Evening Peter,

Probably a female Oedemera nobilis, but could be confused with O. lurida (which in my experince has a little less sculpturing of the pronotum/better-fitting wingcases).

I think the ill-fitting wing-cases here separate these two.

Take care,

Jason

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klaas Reißmann

Hi Jason,

your second thought is the better one. Problem is, if both species occur in GB, that there is no way differ between Oedemera lurida and Oedemera virescens. It would work in the males (O. virescens male has got very thick femora, O. lurida doesn't), but this one can be female or O. lurida male. We would need the genitalia.

Regards
Klaas

Good morning Jason and Klaas

Thank you both for your replies. I have researched the three species that you suggest and think we can exclude Oedemera virescens as it does not occur within the UK. This leaves Oedemera nobilis and Oedemera lurida. The poor fitting pronotum looks to be similar in both of these species.

Klaas Reißmann · #5 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 08:28 AM

Hi,

and "No!", it does not leave Oedemera nobilis. They look totally different (take a look at the colour: O. nobilis light and shiny green, O. lurida dim and dark green. Than take a look at the wings: O. nobilis wings getting extremely narrow within the first third to the end, O. lurida stays mostly the same width till short to it's end, where it gets to the tip in a round bow). It was only a question between Oedemera lurida and Oedemera virescens, supposing, that Oedemera monticola does not occure in GB.

Regards
Klaas

Jason Green · #6 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 04:46 PM

Oedemera virescens does occur in the UK, albeit more northern.

Klaas, last year I collected a few lurida/virescens, male too. I wasn't as experienced in genital-extraction then as I am now. How would the aedeagus of monticola differ to lurida/virescens? I'd certainly be interested in looking at the wings too - I've often wondered about how useful beetle/bug wings are.

Red Robin · #7 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Green

I wasn't as experienced in genital-extraction then as I am now.

....

Does that mean you kill the beetle in doing so?

Jason Green · #8 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 05:06 PM

Yes, regrettably.

Red Robin · #9 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Yes, regrettably.

....If you killed it to eat it or by accident then I think it's justified. But to take the life of any creature just to satisfy academia is pretty sick in my opinion. You obviously don't have the same opinion in spite of expressing regret and in so doing realising such action is not right.

Klaas Reißmann · #10 (**permalink**) 07-05-2011, 09:54 PM

Hi Jason,

I have a look if I can copy this and send it by Email. I have a book digitalized and that is to big to send by Email. So I have to try to take only the pages with the drawings and to send over. That would help much more than a description.

Regards
Klaas

Hi Red Robin,

opinions are different like men are different. What is the difference between killing a beetle, because of driving a car or killing a beetle because of the wish to know a habitat and maybe have the chance to preserve it?

There is a scientific essay that deals with the point how many Insects die on a warm summerday by driving the distance of 500 km (more than 310 miles) in a car. Therefor the front of a car was sepparated into fields all of the same size and one drove the car from Colone to Munic. At the end they counted the insects sticking on the front in some selected fields and extrapolated the numbers to the whole front. At least it was arround 1.000.000 (ONE MILLION!!!) insects that died on this tour on the front of ONE car. And there are driving thousands of cars. If you collect beetles you are able to kill arround max. 200.000 during a long collectors life. This is within 60 years 20% of what everyone of us kills within one day by driving the car.

Where is the difference? Very easy: killing those beetles f.e. to get arguments for a nature preserve seems to be more usefull (in my mind) than killing millions of insects just because we are lazy (sounds like your mind, because that is by mistake).

Or to say it in other words: you may have your opinion, but I'm sorry that your opinion is not my opinion. I do have a different opinion and there is no way to convince me that your opinion is the better one.

And last but not least: it is Jason, killing beetles, who is able to identify the beetles (or insects) you (or others) took photographs of. It is not you! You like that people identify the animals you took photographs of, but you don't like the way they took to get their knowledge. Maybe than you shouldn't ask for it, because than you have complicity in the kill of those insects.

Think about that!

Regards
Klaas