Wasp id pls

[Dillybythesea]

I'm wondering if yellow on the antenna (scape?) means a wasp definitely isn't common or German, or if that's all a bit variable too?! I was taking shots of this on the ivy today. Unfortunately the one 'head-on' shot is a bit soft. Lots more angles available if I've missed an important feature! Thanks in hope!

[Geoff F]

As I understand wasp identification, which isn't very well, the number of yellow spots at the rear of the thorax is also important.

Your specimen definitely has 4.

The black areas on the abdomen are somewhat reduced which should rule out a Median Wasp, although I think this clue can be a bit variable.

So it probably comes down to a common or German Wasp.

Germans usually have a bulge in the middle of the yellow stripe on the pronotum and the yellow stripe behind the eye is unbroken (Commons have a black spot here). The face lacks the typical clear black 'anchor' mark; Germans usually have 3 black dots on the face instead.

So putting it all together; I would suspect German Wasp (Vespula germanica). But, like I previously said, I'm no expert with this family.

[Dillybythesea]

Thanks Geoff. Your very logical approach is SO good! It pushed me back to various ID keys -and some tips I wished I'd known - such as>

The underside of this antennal segment is either yellow or black in workers and predominantly yellow in males

A much greater Malar space (the area between the bottom of the eye and base of the mandible) means that the wasp is a Dolichovespula species

Markings on the Clypeus are best used in conjunction with the amount of yellow on the Ocular sinus and yellow thoracic markings, which do seem to be characteristic to species.

These particular points all came from >
Wasp Identification

And now I think you're absolutely right and German wasp has it! Thanks again! Dill

[Geoff F]

That looks like an interesting site. I have bookmarked it for a longer look later.

[Africa]

That site is great Dillybythesea! Wasps are hard though... I got a very similar looking wasp today, lots of males gorging on an ivy bush, but I thought the the malar space of your (and mine) look too large and the face too long for Vespula. I get to Dolicovespula saxonica
These are some shots:

[Dillybythesea]

Hi Africa! I must have turned something off by accident because WAB's stopped telling me if there are more replies in my threads. Glad I just checked this by accident! Yes, wasps are v hard aren't they! And yes, maybe yours are Dolicovespula saxonica. But not mine I think. In mine, the thoracic markings are pretty indisputable I reckon, when weighed against the thoracic patterns (above views) in that website. (In this last week even the wasps have largely disappeared, and the ivy looks pretty much over... oh dearrrrr!)

[Matt Smith]

This ones a male, probably D.sylvestris.