urgent!!! ID: very large all-black bumblebee???

[Bumblehawks]

On a farm with lots of bumblebee friendly areas, we found a few all-black large bumblebees. They had long faces, long toungues and some had pollen baskets. I think the choice is between B. hortorum and B. ruderatus. Were they more likely to be B. ruderatus which are often black? There were other rare bumblebees on the farm (South of the UK, Winchester area). Or are B. hortorum, (garden bumblebees) often all black too?

Any help would be massively appreciated!!! I need to know whether i can be farily confident that they were B. ruderatus or not. Afraid I have no photos

Thanks!

[Klaas Reißmann]

I don't know if it is a species of the UK, but please take a look at Xylocopa violacea. This is a bumblebee like bee, which is all over black with a blueish shine.

Regards
Klaas

Edit: If it really is a Bombus you have to show some photos. Many of the species of the genus Bombus can't be identified by photos and so there will be no good identification just by a short discription.

[JRsbugs]

I think even with photos you wouldn't get an ID, Stuart (eucera) might be able to give you possibilites and that's about all.

Look at the charts on NHM.

Janet

[eucera]

It is difficult to be confident of separating B. ruderatus from B. hortorum from specimens, extraordinarily difficult from pics, and completely impossible from descriptions.

B. ruderatus does have a well known melanic form... but then so does B. hortorum (albeit rather less frequently). Add to that black males of B. campestris, and the black (with a white tip to the tail) B. hypnorum variants.... well.... it's anyones guess.

That being said, B. ruderatus has become more frequent in the midlands and south of England over the last few years, and there have been records from the Itchen Abbas area (nr. Winchester).

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[eucera]

One thing I meant to ask. You state that an ID is "Urgent". Is the site under some sort of threat?

[The Woodman]

A long shot and apologies for riding on the back of Bumblehawks post but can anyone put a name to this black winged Canadian species seen this August in BC? A large beast and I'm struggling to find an ID.

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

A long shot and apologies for riding on the back of Bumblehawks post but can anyone put a name to this black winged Canadian species seen this August in BC? A large beast and I'm struggling to find an ID.

Take your pick! When searching for species, remember that yours is a female and males of some species could be confused.

Bumblebees found in North America

[Bumblehawks]

Thank you so much for all your replys, its really useful hearing other peoples opinions!
I should have been more clear, sorry- I'm certain they were bombus, (spent my summer identifying different bumblebee species as part of a job), and they were not in my opinion B. hypnorum or B. campestris, as they all had characteristically long faces and long tongues (unlike hypnorum or campestris) and pollen baskets, (unlike campestris). Therefore I am pretty sure they are either B. hortorum or B. ruderatus based on the detailed examination we did of the individuals we caught at the time, and so I just wanted to check was how rare black B. hortorum's really are. Oh, and don't worry, the sites not under threat!
Based on whats been said, I think I will assign those individuals as being either species to be on the safe side, with a suggestion that a more detailed survey and microscopic examination is done.

Thank you again, and sorry I couldn't help with the Canadian species!

[The Woodman]

Thanks for the link Janet. I wish I'd taken more shots of this impressive BB but it was very active and only stayed a second or two on each bloom.

Thank you Bumblehawk too.