Which Vespidae species?

[Ratatoskr]

Hi,

The Vespidae captured in this photo is from south eastern Sweden. It's taken on an open field in a dense forest area, full with these Thistles. Taken in August this year.


I'm wondering what species this Vespidae is.

Thanks,
Mats

[Matt Smith]

Hi Matt

You photo is not of a Vespid, there is no "wasp waist" between the thorax and abdomen. The insect is a Sawfly (Symphyta), most likely a Tenthredo or similar species.

[Ratatoskr]

Thanks Matt,

I tried finding the typical wasp waist on my photos but I'm no expert so I couldn't be sure it was missing it or that my photos were just unclear to determine.

Since I don't know that much about flies vs wasps I thought that a fly could not have a typical wasp looking head, which this one does:


Thanks for guiding me in the right direction. I do think it is a Tenthredo, when looking at photos of it. I've been leaning towards "Tenthredo vespa", but I finally found a photo of the "Tenthredo vespa" where I could see it from below and it does not at all look like mine. It also seems that the "Tenthredo vespa" has all black head, with black mandibles, and mine has white mandibles.

I will keep on looking but if anyone knows anything else about this I'd be greatful.

Btw, are the cells on the wings a perfect indicative of the species and subspecies?

Thanks,
Mats

[GuyF]

Originally Posted by Ratatoskr

Since I don't know that much about flies vs wasps I thought that a fly could not have a typical wasp looking head, which this one does:

Hi Mats, welcome to the site!
I'm afraid I can't help with the identification but just to let you know despite the name the Sawflies are not really flies but are part of the order Hymenoptera, which includes wasps, ants and bees etc. So you're right in thinking that the heads of true flies would be noticeably different from these!
Guy

[JRsbugs]

Mats, Sawflies do not belong to the same Order as flies, they are Hymenoptera.

Look in Symphyta.

It's quite unlikely you will get a named species for this but you can try, there is a forum link at the bottom of HYMIS where you can register and post your pics but try to put them in the relevant category.

(I see you have posted Guy!)

Janet

[Matt Smith]

Originally Posted by Ratatoskr

Btw, are the cells on the wings a perfect indicative of the species and subspecies?

No. Wing veins can help with getting to family and genus, but they are not used for determining species or sub-species.

[Ratatoskr]

Thank you Janet and Guy for informing me on them not being flies.
Thank you Matt for teaching me about the veins, it's important for me to constantly learn more and to be as exact as I possibly can.

I've been searching around now for several hours (tiny headache from it :P) and I'm pretty sure I have the correct Genus and Species. Please check and see if it's "Tenthredo notha" and if not what it is that shows it not to be.