Ladybird ID help please

[AshLee]

Hi folks,

These little chaps and chapesses were found yesterday in what would have been ancient wood pasture, in Herts. They were around 4 mm long, and, as the photos suggest (sorry for the poor quality), quite variable in pattern/colour.





Thanks in advance

[TeresaW]

The first one looks like it could be Orange Ladybird. The second I don't know, but possible a Harlequin?

I'm sure the experts will be along soon to deny everything

[AshLee]

Hi Theresa, they were identical in everthing except pattern/colour. I assume they were the same species. They were a lot smaller than Harlequins. I shall have another look at Orange. Thanks for your suggestions.

[TeresaW]

Where there any sycamores around? I've always found Orange Ladybirds close to sycamores.

[AshLee]

No, there was no sycamore.

They seemed to be closely associated with grass. I was trying to encourage one onto a piece of paper on order to photograph it. It fell and as I parted the grass to try and find it, I found it and another one at the base of the grass.

[Jason Claxton]

Both 24-spots I reckon,the first does look funny,but the second is typical.

Cheers Jason.

[AshLee]

Thanks Jason. The 24-spot does not fly, and these didn't seem to. Also, they eat grass, so that fits too. They really were like them, just very "washed out" in colour.
I'll try and get some better shots if I go back there. I'll be concentating on whether they possess hairs or not, amongst other things.

Cheers.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by AshLee

Thanks Jason. The 24-spot does not fly, and these didn't seem to. Also, they eat grass, so that fits too. They really were like them, just very "washed out" in colour.
I'll try and get some better shots if I go back there. I'll be concentating on whether they possess hairs or not, amongst other things.

Cheers.

Yes, I can only suggest Subcpccinella vigintiquattuorpunctata although they don't look hairy enough: that may be a photographic whim.
There are spotless forms of this species which are quite rare: I've only ever seen two, for instance. They are of interest because on the continent is a related species Cynegetis impunctata which is very similar: File:Cynegetis impunctata.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

The two are told apart by the presence or absence of grooves on the underside of the abdomen for the legs to fit in (or not). At this moment I can't remember which is which .....

An alternative is that this is a recently eclosed individual and the spots have not yet darkened up? The background doesn't look as dark as one would expect, neither does the head ....

[AshLee]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the interesting info. And I like the idea that they have to mature a bit. If I return and there are typical Subcpccinella vigintiquattuorpunctata running around the places these were, then I will assume that this is the case.

Cheers,

Ash

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by AshLee

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the interesting info. And I like the idea that they have to mature a bit. If I return and there are typical Subcpccinella vigintiquattuorpunctata running around the places these were, then I will assume that this is the case.

Cheers,

Ash

Yes; but turn a couple upside down to see if they have grooves!