Puzzling Ladybird combination

[PeterD]

The pair of ladybirds below are puzzling. Had I seen them individually, I would have been looking for two different species but I know this cannot be the case. Can anyone help ID please?


Thanks

[ladyhawk]

not a hundred per sure, might be a Eyed - Ladybird Atis ocellata

[Jason Green]

Morning Peter,

A pair of Harlequin Ladybirds, Harmonia axyridis - the pronotum carries the distinctive black 'W' marking.

Take care,

Jason

EDIT: I've just researched the Eyed, which I'm not too familiar with. A very similar pattern, but it appears their black pronotal markings are more expansive with black inward-pointing marks on the white false eyes' outer-edge. On this specimen, the elytral markings aren't paley bordered, either.

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by ladyhawk

not a hundred per sure, might be a Eyed - Ladybird Atis ocellata

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Morning Peter,

A pair of Harlequin Ladybirds, Harmonia axyridis - the pronotum carries the distinctive black 'W' marking.

Take care,

Jason

EDIT: I've just researched the Eyed, which I'm not too familiar with. A very similar pattern, but it appears their black pronotal markings are more expansive with black inward-pointing marks on the white false eyes' outer-edge. On this specimen, the elytral markings aren't paley bordered, either.

Good morning Jason and Ladyhawk - Thanks for your replies.

The source of my confusion was primarilly the leg colouring. If my memory serves me correctly, the Harlequin Ladybird has brown legs together with the W marking on the pronotum.

[Jason Green]

That had me too - and I can't really explain it. They both have the W, but the one below has the lower area obscured by something - used blood used in past defense, or sap maybe.

Both have the correct antennae and tarsal colouration, so just a strange sheen maybe... picked up by the flash.

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

That had me too - and I can't really explain it. They both have the W, but the one below has the lower area obscured by something - used blood used in past defense, or sap maybe.

Both have the correct antennae and tarsal colouration, so just a strange sheen maybe... picked up by the flash.

Hi Jason

I have included two close-ups of the first image and an additional shot which may help.







Thanks

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, both Harmonia axyridis. A problem with examining insects too long is that you start to see all sorts of anomalies. Generally H. axyridis has pale, brown legs but in part they may darken, especially over winter, and heavily spotted ones have darker legs than less spotted ones!

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Yes, both Harmonia axyridis. A problem with examining insects too long is that you start to see all sorts of anomalies. Generally H. axyridis has pale, brown legs but in part they may darken, especially over winter, and heavily spotted ones have darker legs than less spotted ones!

Thank you Paul. I have learnt something new again. The obvious difference in leg colour really troubled me but now I have an explanation for it.

Jason, I felt sure you were correct with the ID but I needed to know the answer above. I have just ruled out judging from leg colour with ladybirds

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by PeterD

........... I have just ruled out judging from leg colour with ladybirds

You shouldn't do that - 99.99% of the time it's very helpful (with Adalia decempunctata, 10-spot, especially) but just occasionally you'll find a weirdo! These legs are mostly dark but not the intense, overall black that you will get in (e.g.) 7-spots .......

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

You shouldn't do that - 99.99% of the time it's very helpful (with Adalia decempunctata, 10-spot, especially) but just occasionally you'll find a weirdo! These legs are mostly dark but not the intense, overall black that you will get in (e.g.) 7-spots .......

Thanks Paul - seems I threw out the baby with the bath water Your explanation was very helpful and I have changed my notes on my web page for this species to remind me to be careful.