2 crane flies and fly help please

[DaiTheDragon]

Sorry to bother you again. Could you please help me ID these crane flies an the fly. I don't think it's a hoverfly. Also if it's not to much too ask, how do hoverflies differ from other flies.

Thanks
Dai

[oxycera]

The fly is a calypterate, probably a muscid and possibly genus Phaonia. There are are number of Phaonia with orange abdomen, just to forestall any 'subventa' contributions.
Apart from the obvious, hoverflies may be characterised by being robust flies of moderate length, thorax without bristles on top, wing with a 'vena spuria' (you'll have to look that one up, I'm afraid) and wing with two outer cross-veins - to quote Stubbs.

[DaiTheDragon]

Thank you John.

Dai

[bugbotherer]

The grey mating pair look a bit like Tipula luna, and the motled wing one is a short palped cranefly who's name evades me at the moment. There are a few with that type of pattern and the overlapping wings make it a bit trickier

[Laurence Clemons]

2 is Limonia nubeculosa.

[DaiTheDragon]

Thank you very much for your help.

Dai

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by bugbotherer

The grey mating pair look a bit like Tipula luna, and the motled wing one is a short palped cranefly who's name evades me at the moment. There are a few with that type of pattern and the overlapping wings make it a bit trickier

I jhave seen quitre a few craneflies about being brown and with this kind of wing marking are there many likely confusion species? Is there an easy feature (wing cell shape or something?)I can use for id of Tipula luna?

[bugbotherer]

Hi Gill The male Tipula luna had very ginger hairs on its genitals

[Gill Catton]

Right..... Ummmm thanks!!