Bombus pratorum? I'm not sure..

[tigger]

I thought this was a Bombus pratorum queen to start with, but looking at the books their hair seems shaggier... so now I'm having second thoughts and thinking it's a Bombus terrestris (but I was sure it had a red tail)

Can anyone help?

[Jason Green]

Afternoon Jane,

I think it's B. terrestris with the brownish line of hair between the buff-coloured tail and black hairs on the abdomen. How long was it, and do you have any photos showing the yellow abdominal bar? They [pratorum] often have a break in it, apparently.

Take care,

Jason

[tigger]

Yes, more I look at it the more it looks like B. terrestris... doh!

Thanks. Jane

[JRsbugs]

It is difficult to tell the size in these pics, but taking all into consideration it does look like B. terrestris.

Not because of the brown line between the black and buff tail though, that isn't usually visible on queens which actually have a buff tail. This one has a deep orange tail which is the native form, it can look almost red and similar to that of B. pratorum.

The yellow band at the thorax top is really too deep a colour for B. pratorum, which usually has a broader band with a dip in the middle at the bottom and is a lemon yellow. These bands on B. terrestris can be very variable, some are chocolate and can barely be seen, some are narrow and some are broader. On yours it actually looks like it could have a small dip in the middle.

The band at the top of the abdomen does look too light for B. terrestris queen (workers can look lemon yellow), but the light angle can play tricks making it look lemon yellow.

B. pratorum does have a yellow abdominal band, and it can look to be broader and nearer the waist, but it can also be broken, or non existant. The tail tip on B. pratorum usually has a smaller amount of colour than B. terrestris, but again I have seen some B. terrestris with very little colour.

Once you get used to seeing them you can tell the difference easily, the size being the main difference, B. pratorum is very small while B. terrestris queen is a huge beast, often looking like it has a double tail end.

Janet

[JRsbugs]

You know, this could still be Bombus pratorum queen!

I took some pics yesterday of one, comparing the two I am starting to be swayed. They are often very small, but the one Ihave seen this year is bigger than usual although still much smaller than B. terrestris.

The top band on the thorax can look a little golden but the abdomen band is always lemon yellow, and it does have that shaggy appearance.

I'll upload the pics! If you saw that yours was not so big, then B. pratorum is a possibility! Any idea to the size?

[JRsbugs]

Jane, can you revert your pic back to the original and crop leaving more in the surrounding? It might help to get a better idea of the size. If you thought it wasn't big enough to be B. terrestris then yes it is B. pratorum, there is a big difference in the size of queens even if B. pratorum is a well fed specimen.

Notice the shaggy yellow adomen band.

[JRsbugs]

Double post

[tigger]

Many thanks Janet. It was funny reading all your posts at once... starting with B. terrestris and ending up with a possible B. pratorum again

I've taken some more photos and will upload a less cropped image of the other days bee. I think it "could" be B. pratorum - although its first band is very golden rather than lemon yellow - BUT the second band is lemon yellow...

More later when I have a bit of time to upload... back to the garden for now!

[Matt Smith]

Bombus terrstris queen, buff tail (not red) and deep yellow (not bright yellow) on the thorax and abdomen.

[Jason Green]

Looking at it again with fresh eye - yes, pretty certain it's still terrestris.

A little tough to be certain without a better view of the tail, but as Matt says the banding is too deeper a shade of yellow. I am mindful that it's quite obviously wet though (which doesn't help, with the way it's giving an additionally shaggy look to the penultimate abdominal band!)