Nomada sp. Bee for ID

[tigger]

Hi. I tried to ID this bee earlier in the year (in May) here but at the time Eucera said he couldn't really see what it was from the photo's I'd uploaded. It might still be impossible to ID from these extra photos, but I thought I'd upload them anyway.

It was sat outside what I "think" was an Andrena fulva nest (which was hidden under a load of leaves at the side of the lawn).

In my "Bees of Surrey" book it says that the cleptoparasites of Andrena fulva are Nomada panzeri (males of which are very similar to N. flava)and the very rare N. signata. I'm discounting N. signata as this bee below does not have a pair of "irregular yellow spots on the rear of the thorax". So is it a Nomada panzeri?

I'm kind of assuming (maybe I shouldn't) that this is a female, as once the Andrena sp. came out of the nest, the Nomada sp. went straight in (presumably to lay eggs).

Or maybe it's not an Andrena fulva nest at all, in which case it could be another Nomada sp entirely!

Would like to hear what others think. Thanks. Jane

[JRsbugs]

I'm going to say Nomada flava, yes a female. It looks very much like those I had and apparently it is a 'group' so can be variable.

Janet

[tigger]

Is Nomada flava a cleptoparasite of Andrena fulva? In "Bees of Surrey" it says it's most common host is Andrena carantonica or A. nigroaenea but I'm presuming it uses other Andrena species nests as well.

Actually there's a great picture of Nomada flava in BOS... and it does look very similar, plus it's one of the most common species in the genus (which fits).

Thanks. Jane

[JRsbugs]

I don't think Andrena fulva could be easily mistaken, and as you were not sure it was Andrena fulva I assumed the nest might belong to another species. But if you are sure it is Andrena fulva then I can't say if N. flava does parasitize it, but it still looks like mine which was said to be N. flava.

[JRsbugs]

I thought I was going nuts as I was certain you had said the pic in the book was of Andrena fulva, checked the email and yes you had said that so I guess you did a quick edit.

[tigger]

Ahhh, you noticed did you!

I'm pretty sure it was Andrena fulva nest... but I must admit I was paying more attention to the Nomada sp. sat outside (as at the time I didn't know what it was up to!). However, as you say, my pictures do look very like Nomada flava.

Thanks for your help Janet.

Tipping down with rain and looks like 5pm (at 9.30am in the morning!). Hope it's better where you are!

Jane

[oxycera]

You can easily tell it's a female as the 12 antennal segments are countable.
N.panzeri is also common although I don't know the relative frequency of these species in Dorset.
N.panzeri is usually a little smaller and has black setae on the labrum, clypeus, hind tibia and mid femur. On flava these are yellowish. Obviously it is not possible to be certain about these characters from the photos.

[Roger Morris]

I'm afraid that this is one that is not going to be a confirmed ID. The genus Nomada is pretty challenging even using keys and I would not rush to a name. When I started doing bees and wasps 25 years ago I was thoroughly advised to retain all voucher specimens as the BWARS people were sceptical about records that could not be confirmed. The best I think that can be said is that this is one of two or three quite common species with N. panzeri a fairly good possibility. I would discount N. flava I think.

Regards

Roger Morris

[tigger]

Thanks all. It was just a longshot. I realize the difficulties with Nomada id and think this one will end up just as Nomada sp. in the book!

It's a good learning exercise...

Jane

[eucera]

I supect this may be N. panzeri BUT it really is impossible to separate from N. flava without microscopic scrutiny. I wouldn't rule out N. flava, though, because no matter what the books will tell us what the hosts are, the insects themselves are completely illiterate. Many apparent host/parasite associations are not proven by rearing.