The 'Scarce Seven Spotted Ladybird' Thread!

[tristanba]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Anyone can say what they like about other features of C. magnifica, but the critical identifying factor is present and very obvious, and in my view that should be enough.

No - it is manifestly not enough, identification is always a holistic process, particularly when it concerns a record which is out of range and ecologically implausible. This is my last word on the matter

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

You make too many assumptions Jason (Green), sorry to have to point that out but if anyone should be made aware of mis-information it should be pointed in your direction. Sorry, I should have included Charlie in that too!

I am the first to jump to conclusions - but also to accept anothers ID when given the facts.

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

A few here have gone full steam ahead assuming that I wanted to submit an official record for this ladybird.

I had no such intentions!

I think you were the first (and only) to say you would send it in?

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

and in my view that should be enough.

Which it isn't - simple as that.

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

I don't think I was deriding London Jason, but you do come across as southerly biased! And this is from someone who is not a native of this country, well not recently anyway!

I really don't know what you're trying to achieve by attempting to instigate a North/South supposed intention, but it couldn't be further from the truth from my end. There are a lot of insects I'd love to see in Northern areas, ones you don't get down here. For the benefit of members reading this, I've said in the past that most - not all, new insects arrive in the UK from the South first, due to average higher temperatures, then if they settle down they'll spread. That as far as I know is science and statistical - nothing to do with 'bias' at all.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

You make too many assumptions Jason (Green), sorry to have to point that out but if anyone should be made aware of mis-information it should be pointed in your direction. Sorry, I should have included Charlie in that too!

No need to apologise , though I've never done so without clearly stating it isn't fact. Naming people and going over old ground will add nothing to this thread. Mistakes happen - it's the willingness of those concerned to concede a mistake that matters.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Obviously you will be offended, but I have also been offended so let's call the score nil:nil.

It would take far more to offend me than that! If you are, though you'll have to expand on the reason of, then I apologise

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Interesting post, Paul. You say the association with F. rufa is due to abundance - are there other known species that you will find it with? Also, would I be right in thinking that in cases where C. magnifica is associated with other Formica spp., that a nest in woodlands or suitable habitat would still be required to find the Scarce?

I was suggesting that there are more F. rufa colonies for ecologists to study in southern UK!

F. rufibarbis/pratensis/trunicola as well as Myrmica laevinodis & Camponotus ligniperda amongst others are quoted from continental Europe. It was also speculated that it lived apart from ants in some areas. Some of the Sloggett & Majerus papers are on-line and quite relevant to this thread.

With regard to London, C. magnifica this is only found in any numbers on the Surrey Heaths. With regard to London proper, I have no records; it was not noted at the solitary recorded wood-ant colony in Middlesex!

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I was suggesting that there are more F. rufa colonies for ecologists to study in southern UK!

F. rufibarbis/pratensis/trunicola as well as Myrmica laevinodis & Camponotus ligniperda amongst others are quoted from continental Europe. It was also speculated that it lived apart from ants in some areas. Some of the Sloggett & Majerus papers are on-line and quite relevant to this thread.

With regard to London, C. magnifica this is only found in any numbers on the Surrey Heaths. With regard to London proper, I have no records; it was not noted at the solitary recorded wood-ant colony in Middlesex!

Thanks Paul. No wonder I have yet to find any WA!

[tristanba]

I have only seen C. magnifica on heathland at Fleet Pond, which is outside the LNHS recording area.

[Paul mabbott]

Just to add to the confusion, there are plenty of other insects associated with ant colonies: some blue butterflies being the best known. An interesting beetle is Clytra quadripunctata (Chrysomelidae) which is not uncommonly found in northern woodant colonies; it is scarlet with black spots and has been confused with a ladybird before (I don't see why) ..........

The only other myrmecophilous British coccinellid is (to the best of my knowledge) Platynaspis luteorubra which I have only found in Lasius niger [in the broader sense] colonies but it possibly uses other species.

There's an interesting old book on the wider subject: "Guests of the British Ants " by Donnisthorpe - around 1920, I think. Won't be fully up-to-date but interesting!

[Jason Green]

Paul, while we're on the subject of ladybirds, what can you tell me with regards to the ID of this atypical one?

[ID] Ladybird - Scymnus interruptus or not?

Thanks