dragonflies for id confirmation please

[cornish-thyme]

Hopefully I’m getting better at this…I think the first one is a common hawker (not the most in focus picture I’m afraid - it flew off before i could get another one) and the second a female common darter - there was a bright red male flying around as well but my camera’s batteries ran out. Can anyone confirm the ids please.
Thank you.

[wint]

The first is a Southern Hawker - the broad antehumeral stripes and the fused spots on segments 9 and 10 are good pointers. The second is a Common Darter - an immature male.

Hope that helps

[ron1863]

I'm no expert but I would agree with your identifications

[cornish-thyme]

Thank you for the ids, i considered the southern hawker but the pictures on the dragonfly society's website looked browner than mine so i decided to guess that it was a common. having read your responses I've just done a WAB forum search for the southern hawker and found a thread from a couple of years ago which i think confirms that i was wrong..again.
Oh well at least i got one right and both species are ones i've not seen before
Thanks again

Originally Posted by harasseddad

There's a quick and easy check for ID on the blue spotted hawkers - the Southern is the only one where the spots on the bottom segments near the tail merge into a solid stripe. So Stripe=Southern.

If it has dots on the bottom it's either Migrant or Common Hawker -unless it's early in the year, when it's hairy, or you're in North-west Scotland, when it might be Azure)

[cornish-thyme]

Forgot to ask above...is it the dots on the end of the tail that tell you its an immature male rather than a female common darter?

[wint]

Originally Posted by cornish-thyme

Forgot to ask above...is it the dots on the end of the tail that tell you its an immature male rather than a female common darter?

What I looked for was the secondary genitalia under segment 2 and the long appendages at the end of the abdomen. Also it has a more slender 'waist' than females do. If it was a female you would expect to see the vulvar scale under segment 8.

The markings probably are important - I think the female has two rows of black dashes along the side as opposed to the male's one row but someone else would have to confirm that.

[cornish-thyme]

Thank you for your patience paul, hopefully i'll get better at this as i go along...or at least i'll have managed to identify all of the species found loitering around the ponds! I'm slowly learning the things to look for, thanks in main to the helpful people on this forum. one thing...have just googled dragonfly vulvar scale and i can find plenty of text references but not a single picture of what it actually looks like, i don't suppose you can suggest a website with a picture? Thank you again.

[wint]

Originally Posted by cornish-thyme

Thank you for your patience paul, hopefully i'll get better at this as i go along...or at least i'll have managed to identify all of the species found loitering around the ponds! I'm slowly learning the things to look for, thanks in main to the helpful people on this forum. one thing...have just googled dragonfly vulvar scale and i can find plenty of text references but not a single picture of what it actually looks like, i don't suppose you can suggest a website with a picture? Thank you again.

I recommend WAB e.g.



or



By contrast this is an immature male

where you can see the secondary genitalia under seg 2 (through the wings)

Getting to see these small details in the field is another matter.

I recommend getting 'Field Guide to the Dragonflies and Damselflies of Great Britian and Ireland' by Brooks and Lewington as an alternative / in addition to using internet pictures.

Hope that helps

[Phil Whiley]

Originally Posted by wint

What I looked for was the secondary genitalia under segment 2 and the long appendages at the end of the abdomen. Also it has a more slender 'waist' than females do. If it was a female you would expect to see the vulvar scale under segment 8.

The markings probably are important - I think the female has two rows of black dashes along the side as opposed to the male's one row but someone else would have to confirm that.

Agreed, the female Southern has a wider waist and lacks the tiny green triangle that the male has just at the top of the waist where it thickens out. The other distinguishing feature on the Southern is the roughly-shaped "golf-tee" shape on S2; on the female Common it is much thinner. The Migrant Hawker has a similar shape, but the other markings on S2 are different. Also (as I think you've already mentioned) the spots on S9 and S10 are joined to form a bar, whereas on Common they are separate.

Regarding books, I can also recommend Field Guide to Dragonflies of Britain and Europe by Dijkstra and Lewington (which also covers damselflies).
Regards
Phil

[wint]

Originally Posted by Phil Whiley

Regarding books, I can also recommend Field Guide to Dragonflies of Britain and Europe by Dijkstra and Lewington (which also covers damselflies).
Regards
Phil

Hi Phil

Yes - Dijkstra is an excellent book but I personally woudn't recommend it to someone starting out on dragonflies in Britain - there are too many species that don't occur here which you'have to ignore and just lead to confusion.

Cheers