Anthophora plumipes?

smartie · #1 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 08:41 AM

Derek and his mum said yesterday they had seen an all-black bumblebee (feeding on agapanthus) which was unfortunately moving about too fast to photograph. It was about the same size as a buff-tailed bumblebee. I'd have said it was probably anthrophora plumipes, but would they still be around at this time of year (in Essex)? And, if not, could anyone suggest an alternative?

eucera · #2 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 09:38 AM

No chance of A. plumipes at this time of year I'm afraid -it is very much a Spring insect. All-black bumbles could be Bombus campestris or B. ruderatus, and black with white tails B. hortorum or B. hypnorum.

Specimens are absolutely essential to be sure on this one

smartie · #3 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 10:08 AM

Thanks for that. I did think it was a bit late, but didn't know if there might be some odd strays still about. They are adamant it was all black and didn't have a white tail.

Do B. hortorum and B. hypnorum have an all-black form, then (excepting the tail)?. We have both in the garden and I've only ever seen the banded yellow colouration on the one and the tawny jacket on the other. But then as you know, my knowledge of bees is fairly rudimentary!

JRsbugs · #4 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smartie

Thanks for that. I did think it was a bit late, but didn't know if there might be some odd strays still about. They are adamant it was all black and didn't have a white tail.

Do B. hortorum and B. hypnorum have an all-black form, then (excepting the tail)?. We have both in the garden and I've only ever seen the banded yellow colouration on the one and the tawny jacket on the other. But then as you know, my knowledge of bees is fairly rudimentary!

Check out the colour variations here, a list of British species. Be sure to read the notes under each for variations.

B. hortorum

BUMBLE BEES

B. ruderatus

BUMBLE BEES

B. hypnorum although it's not yet showing the black with white tail form, I think that may be more on mainland Europe?

BUMBLE BEES

B. campestris

BUMBLE BEES

Janet

smartie · #5 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 06:41 PM

Thanks, Janet, that is very useful.

eucera · #6 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 08:19 PM

The black colour form (+ white tail) of B. hypnorum is known from this country. I have seen workers and a queen in my own garden, (I have the specimens) and I know of a whole crop of workers in an Oxford orchard. My ones came out of a nest with more regularly marked individuals.

Janet is quite correct in saying that this morph is not uncommon on the near continent, and perhaps gives a clue as to the source of our hypnorum!

jeremiah · #7 (**permalink**) 10-07-2009, 11:10 PM

I saw a large black bumble bee (at least I thought it was a bumble bee) with a yellow collar only two days ago.
I've looked at the links above and none of the diagrams seem to match.
The thorax and abdomen were definitely black, no white or grey, even shiny in some lights, and the yellow collar was very distinct, looked "m" shaped.
There were some white/buff tailed bumblebees around too, and the difference was quite clear.

It looked so different I took some pictures, not good quality as they were taken through a (not too clean

) pantry window:

JRsbugs · #8 (**permalink**) 11-07-2009, 12:26 AM

Hi jeremiah,

The bee which has a noticeable 'm' shaped yellow collar is Bombus pratorum female or queen. I have seen workers until recently, the small amount of red on the tail tip can be worn and difficult to see but your bee looks too big for that.

The most likely one you saw is Bombus terrestris queen, I saw a large one today and they do visit Buddleja. The tail colour can be quite a small area and is very variable in colour, some having a very rich deep orange colour. Even though your pics are distant I can see a small area of the tail which is coloured in the second pic. The band on the abdomen can be dark and from a distance might not be seen.

I really can't think what else could fit.

eucera · #9 (**permalink**) 11-07-2009, 09:12 AM

I really wouldn't loke to say what these pics show. The subjects are too distant and too blurry for a peoper answer to be given.

The M-shaped collar on #1 looks like a regular yellow collar and a blob of pollen.

For describing the basic anatomy, it is perhaps worth pointing out that the collar is part of the thorax

jeremiah · #10 (**permalink**) 11-07-2009, 01:22 PM

I had hoped it would turn up again, maybe closer, but those particuliar buddleia flowers have now gone over so it probably won't be back. I'll keep an eye out later when the new flower spikes come out.

Thank you for trying for an id with those pictures.