[ID] Seven-spot Ladybird form?

[Jason Green]

Hi everyone!

I saw this ladybird today... that seems to have a fourth pair of faint black marks developing on the shoulders. It's on both sides so I don't think it's dirt, either. Can it occasionally have eight spots at all? Have I done something embarrasing?

23/06/2009

A common Seven-spot...
...or a different form?

Any comments appreciated!

Take care,

Jason

[aeshna5]

As far as I know 7-spot tends to come in the bog standard version. Agree this is a 7-spot.

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, these are the makings of an extra pair of spots. Coccinella septempunctata has been found with 1-9 spots as well as a melanic form. These vary from rare to very rare! C7p is one of the most conservative of ladybird species.

There is a closely related species (Coccinella magnifica - the scarce seven-spot) which usually has 9-11 spots but may have seven. It's differentiated from the 7-spot by features on the underside but also is never found far from wood ant colonies.

[Jason Green]

You know Paul, C. magnifica crossed my mind too. I haven't seen any wood ants, though I have seen a good few Myrmicas. The WAs these are interested in are Lasius sp., right? There is a woodland nearby, and this particular area has a lot of these Coccinella ladybirds about, I just haven't looked for any others with these markings.

I'll try for a 'chasis' shot...

[charlieb]

You will know if there are wood ants around ... see them, hear them, feel them....

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

You know Paul, C. magnifica crossed my mind too. I haven't seen any wood ants, though I have seen a good few Myrmicas. The WAs these are interested in are Lasius sp., right? There is a woodland nearby, and this particular area has a lot of these Coccinella ladybirds about, I just haven't looked for any others with these markings.

I'll try for a 'chasis' shot...

Wood ants are the various Formica spp - Trees for Life - Species profile: Wood Ants

If you do have wood ants it's always worth having a (careful) look in the colonies not just for scarce 7-spots but other beetles and insects which live in them. The C. magnifica is considerably smaller than C. septempunctata and usually, as mentioned before, has the extra shoulder spots.

[Jason Green]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your help on this. I have a small retractable 1m tape measure attached to my camera - - so will also try for measurements. I suppose it's easier in some circumstances to spot the ladybird first, and then the ants; can this happen?

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

Hi Paul,
............ I suppose it's easier in some circumstances to spot the ladybird first, and then the ants; can this happen?

Not in my experience:
http://www.ladybird-survey.pwp.bluey...k/antCoccm.jpg

Size isn't that critical - if you had a bunch of 7-spots next to a bunch of scarce 7-spots the difference in size would be obvious: the spot numbers, the proximity of ants and the underside markings are more helpful!

[Jason Green]

Great photo! I've just looked at my recent entrant in the Gallery...

17/06/2009

Seven-spotted...
...but look at the shoulders!!

This too seems to have the fourth pair of spots! This was surely another individual, photographed six days ago in the same habitat but a distance away. If the other seven-spotted was just bog-standard, does another with seemingly the same additional spots change or mean anything - or is it perfectly possible for several ladybirds in the same area to have the same form?

[Dogghound]

Its possible that they have grown up in the same sort of environmental conditions they may even be genetically related. It is not unusual for ladybirds to show variation like this. The first specimen is very pale and could be a fairly new emergent.