Which Bumble Bee?

[PeterD]

I have tried to ID this bee from the guide provided by the Natural History Museum. The banding of the thorax and tail are the same colour - red brown but only pale greyish bands are present on the abdomen. This does not fit their guide - Any ideas?





Thank you

Peter

[Dan Salter]

Hmm im feeling your confusion.

Initially i would say early bumble bee - Bombus pratorum, however it is then lacking the orange band at the front of the abdomen, and also the grey banding doesnt fit.

Grey banding fits Shrill Carder bee- Bombus sylvarum (rare/declining) but then the banding at the front of the thorax looks too orange/red, should be whiter?....hmmm...but grey banding is good.

Also these have a southern england distributio and ididnt clock where you were?

Maybe its an early carder or a shrill bumblebee?....ill let someone 'proper' like Paul Mabbots have a go.

[JRsbugs]

The banding on the thorax looks yellow to me. It does look like Bombus pratorum worker, I have seen a couple, first pic I got was on the 15th and they were tiny.

Janet

[Dan Salter]

Cheers JR.

So...(im new to bees) do workers and the like have different colours/markings then ? as the only drawing i have of Early Bumblebee has an orange/yellow band on the front section of the abdomen but the one in this pic is all black?

And i agree front thorax band too yellow/orange to be shrill carder.

[JRsbugs]

Dan, either the queen or worker can be like the one in the pic, but the ones I have seen recently I would say were much too small to be a queen. Checkout the charts on the NHM.

BUMBLE BEES

I can upload my worker (female) bee pics if you like.

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Dan, either the queen or worker can be like the one in the pic, but the ones I have seen recently I would say were much too small to be a queen. Checkout the charts on the NHM.

BUMBLE BEES

I can upload my worker (female) bee pics if you like.

That would be helpful JR. I have used the charts from the NHM site but none of the markings offered comes near this bee. To give some idea of size, it is feeding on Azalia and was about the same size as a common bumble bee - maybe slightly smaller.

Peter

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by Dan Salter

Cheers JR.

So...(im new to bees) do workers and the like have different colours/markings then ? as the only drawing i have of Early Bumblebee has an orange/yellow band on the front section of the abdomen but the one in this pic is all black?

And i agree front thorax band too yellow/orange to be shrill carder.

Dan,
thanks for contributing. I tried hard to search the web and thought the NHM site would be the answer. This bee has some of the attributes of at least two listed.
Peter

[Dan Salter]

Oooh they are massively variable! those charts wee all over the FSC laminate one i have....ill have to download and laminate them in the Uni library.

And after watching BEE NIGHT on BBC4 tonight....i can see me getting right into these buzzing wonders...to add to all the other areas of wildlife British wildlife im already obsessed with!

My Lepidoptera (Macro moth) based dissertation is finished...just needs to be printed tomorrow...bound and handed in ! yay !

[JRsbugs]

Peter, which do you mean by the 'common bumblebee'?

Also, Azaleas do vary in size, although the smallest are not terribly small. Yours could be a queen, they are small but can vary in size. The general shape and small red area on the tail is like B. pratorum.

Here's two pics of a Queen and two of what I think is a worker without the yellow band on the abdomen. I put them in the unidentified by mistake!

[PeterD]

Originally Posted by Dan Salter

Oooh they are massively variable! those charts wee all over the FSC laminate one i have....ill have to download and laminate them in the Uni library.

And after watching BEE NIGHT on BBC4 tonight....i can see me getting right into these buzzing wonders...to add to all the other areas of wildlife British wildlife im already obsessed with!

My Lepidoptera (Macro moth) based dissertation is finished...just needs to be printed tomorrow...bound and handed in ! yay !

Thanks again for your comments. I wish you well with your dissertation.

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Peter, which do you mean by the 'common bumblebee'?

Also, Azaleas do vary in size, although the smallest are not terribly small. Yours could be a queen, they are small but can vary in size. The general shape and small red area on the tail is like B. pratorum.

Here's two pics of a Queen and two of what I think is a worker without the yellow band on the abdomen. I put them in the unidentified by mistake!

Thanks for posting these JR. The 'Common' bee I meant was the 'pascuorum'. The delemna I have is that the band on the thorax is the same colour as the tail band. But for this, I would agree with 'pratorum'.
Peter