fly type thing ID

pete76 · #1 (**permalink**) 25-08-2008, 09:57 PM

Hi all,

Spotted a few of these things out in Surrey today - been all the way through my book and not found a likely match.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

Dogghound · #2 (**permalink**) 25-08-2008, 10:00 PM

Its a scorpion fly Panorpa Sp. likely P.communis.

Pudding4brains · #3 (**permalink**) 26-08-2008, 01:32 AM

Howdy,

This is a very interesting shot (!) As far as I'm informed Panorpa vulgaris is not recorded for Britain. I haven't been able to work out (nor did I try extremely hard) if that is due to 'historical' issues with the two sister-species (P. communis and P. vulgaris) which used to be regarded as one by many researchers - leaving open the possibility that both have always been present in Britain but were both just called by one name (communis).

So, I have been looking at all the images of British Scorpionflies to see if there were any 'obvious' vulgaris to be found and came up empty. This however is the first one that may actually very well be vulgaris

May being the operative word. In the Netherlands I wouldn't think twice to stamp this one "vulgaris", but the British images I've been looking at are a tad confusing, so I haven't quite worked out yet what the extend of (genetic???) variation in the wing patterns is for the British populations of P. germanica - some images suggest that your germanicas may more frequently have 'complete' pterostigmal bands than ours so I'm a bit reluctant still with slapping names on the British females all too easily.

On the other hand the wing veins also clearly point to vulgaris/communis and if it goes between those two modern literature suggests it must be vulgaris because of the basal spot spreading over two cells.

So, for me this is the first 'proof' I see of a very likely Panorpa vulgaris from the British Isles. Maybe it has long be established that vulgaris is indeed present in Britain and I have just not been able to find the info, but if it's not I think reasearchers/fieldclubs would be very interested in seeing an actual animal (preferably male), or better yet - a few.

Is it any hassle to go back to the location and photograph or catch a few more? Things to aim for in the photographs:

Thanks! Arp

Hedge Witch · #4 (**permalink**) 26-08-2008, 07:15 AM

What a fantastic reply, Arp

pete76 · #5 (**permalink**) 26-08-2008, 01:25 PM

Fantastic and fascinating reply, thank you. I'll certainly try to get back and find more, although considering the number of bites I'm currently suffering from after hours of rooting around in the grass it could be a while!