Why is this beetle ignored?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I've never seen an oil beetle and certainly not in London! So to see one in SE1 three times is not a good statistical probability. I suspect that what we have here is faulty memory syndrome. When I was a child I remember how huge some insects (bumble bees) and flowers appeared. If you had asked me how large the flower of a hollyhock was I would have estimated something like three inches! It's the way youngsters see things ... wish I could do it now

i found a beetle which more or less fits the description while on holiday in wiltshire (danebury hillfort) last month - it was about the size of a 50p.

the bad news is that i dont know what it is (though i had tentitavely id'd it as an oil beetle - however the good news is that i have pictures - but my downloader is at work - i'll try and put a couple up tommorow.

btw - my understanding of the links thing was that we could link other sites (if not comercial) at mod discretion but not link in images held on other sites.

[Zaxy]

....

[NickCantle]

For a first post, that's a hell of an input

[Lori]

Thanks so much for the imput folks. I'm going to check all and any new links during the next couple of days. At the moment I'm trying to compose a more general thread for that Se1 site forum.

Without rancour, I now understand why I didn't get replies back from the entomologists I found online over a period of some years. They obviously thought I was a crackpot with too much time on my hands, deleted my emails and never gave the subject a second thought.

My poor vegie garden is being attacked by a veritable army of slugs due to my inattention as I will not use chemicals anywhere on my property. I have housework piling up around me. I've had two migraines during the last fortnight. I've viewed more beetle sites than any sane person should. My eyes ache, I've got a numb bum and have been too scared to use my blood pressure monitor for a month. This isn't exactly a joy ride.

As to my memory. I can only tell you that do have a rather better memory than is usual. Suffice it to say, I met a childhood neighbour of ours years ago, I asked her what the occasion was when mothers and children were in a queue for a toy which turned out to be a small gun metal broom and shovel on a card in which I had no interest. She said, that was immediately after the war, it was a celebration for the children, you were a babe in arms and you gave your toy to Eunice my daughter. I said I knew I was being carried in the queue and told her what the toy was. I was less than eighteen months old.

Memory does play tricks, I'm aware and accept that it does but some things remain because they were so exceptional or affecting and my beetle was a quandary from the outset.

I do understand that the whole business may seem like a flight of fancy and bear no animosity for those who may come to that conclusion.

No more defensive posts I absolutely promise.

Lori

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I suspect that what we have here is faulty memory syndrome. When I was a child I remember how huge some insects (bumble bees) and flowers appeared. If you had asked me how large the flower of a hollyhock was I would have estimated something like three inches! It's the way youngsters see things ... wish I could do it now

But she did say that she had seen it a number of times between the age of 5 to early twenties. Each time she was astonished at the size and it looked the same as the last time she had seen it.

[Lori]

Just to bring you folks up to date..

Mum rang out of the blue on her return from the Isle of Wight. My sister hadn't spoken to her about the beetle as she was in Venice on holiday. The conversation went something like this.

^^^^^^^^

(me) Mum do you by any chance remember me calling you down from Nans to look at a beetle when I was small?

(Mum) No, dear.

(me) Mum you came down and said it was a Devils Coach or Stagecoach beetle.

(Mum) I don't remember that.

(me) Mum you recognised it back then. Have a think about it during the next few days ok?

(Mum) I haven't seen any of those large beetles here in Redhill.

(me) You said you didn't remember it!

(Mum) I don't.

^^^^^^^^

So more exasperation and disappointment.

I checked out the female oil beetle and I see what you mean about the body being bloated and retangular. Unfortunately it is definitely isn't my beetle.

As a long shot.. I'm trying to find a good photo of bolbelasmus bocchus macho without much success.

I've rechecked Pterostichus but had to eliminate it.

I found a Suffolk site collecting information on their beetles and was struck with the description of the following..

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Popularly known as Churchyard or Cellar Beetles because of their preferred habitats, these are of characteristic appearance with the two wingcases fused together and the tips of these protruding bluntly as shown in the illustration. They are found in old barns, cellars, or in dark, damp parts of sheds, old houses, churches etc. They especially occur in places with brick floors covered in mats etc. as the omnivorous larvae feed on food debris in the cracks between these. The beetles crawl very slowly. Three species are recorded from Suffolk but only Blaps mucronata (18 -25 mm) is a true resident, gigas and lethifera being importations.
Dull black in colour.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My beetle could have survived in just such a habitat. Each time I saw him he was near old buildings and outhouses, property derelict or in poor repair and others with only the cellars remaining after being bombed.

The fused wingcases, the slow crawl and the dull black all fit too. The only problem is they don't look like my beetle. However, blaps obvious does need further investigation as suggested.

The site is White Admiral 48 beetle recording, I found it on Google. Thanks for the guidance and suggestions even if I don't mention you individually, I am grateful.

Lori

[djackso]

I love this thread - it's so weirdly mysterious.

Anyway, a thought has just occurred - could it be an exotic beetle species, bred in captivity. Someone could have been attempting their own programme of release in that area over the those years.

This would certainly fit with no-one having identified it yet.

I've no idea if this is feasible. But we would now have a whole world of species to pick from.

[Lori]

Thanks djack for the suggestion.

I saw it twice in a London slum area. Nothing but slums and war damage as far as the eye could see and then some. I don't think anyone would have been remotely interested in raising beetles. Many were still raising rabbits in their yards for meat. It was post war Britain and times were almost as bad as they had been during the war. There was mass unemployment in the area. The third time was in Catford which does border areas that were more affluent and could have produced an eccentric beetle devotee but I think you and I know the chance is rather remote.

No, its a complete mystery. I was disappointed Mum didn't remember. Bizarre that she should come out with that 'We don't get those large beetles here'. My sister hadn't contacted her and I deliberately didn't describe the beetle in any way to Mum. My mother isn't like me, she nearly died of fright when she saw a Huntsman spider in our house in here Australia.

I thought that although so long ago, the beetle had been so large she might have remembered.. or even recognised the name she'd told me at the time.

I'm still looking at beetles on U Tube and checking out sites without much luck. I'm as convinced as ever that my beetle isn't among them and since he never turned up on any documentary on beetles or the rarer creatures in Britain over the years I have toyed with the idea that just maybe he always was rare and unclassified. Maybe I was one of the last people to have seen him although how such a magnificent specimen escaped scientific notice is hard to imagine. It possible that he was specific to a particular area of South London, an area which was inhabited by people scraping a living and with little interest or regard for beetles and barren of those who did. The was soon to be covered in tower blocks and modern commercial units, car parks and new roads. I hate the thought but it is possible that over the years his habitat diminished to such an extent that he is now gone the way of the Thylacine.

I remember how disgusted I was as a child seeing the construction and eventual opening of The Festival of Britain site on South Bank. I don't know what it looks like now but then it was a barren, horrific mess of concrete and iron with two or three sad looking trees far from each other and each surrounded by a an unsympathetic ring of concrete. Who ever designed the area should have been hung, drawn and quartered. We kids and our parents hated it for its sterility, ugliness and complete disregard for needs of local inhabitants who obviously would not be patronising the Royal Festival Hall upon which so much money was lavished.

There was one tiny oasis within the South Bank. It was a half moon shaped pond in which water weeds grew and had water beetles skating over it. It held no tiny fish or tadpoles but a few teeny specimens of pond life. I had a pet toad for three years, I'd exchanged a home made scooter for him with some boys. On Saturday I used to take him there in a blue Smiths Crisps bowl and put him in the pond. I'd go off to play with my pals and when it was time to go home for tea I'd shake my hand in the water a few times and believe it or not, after a few minutes my toad would swim back to me. I suppose now some doubting Thomas will say I've made that up. He was a lovely chap, I kept him on our window sill in our scullery and when I came to feed him he'd wipe his mouth in anticipation and get quite animated. Dear old chap, it took me three years to find somewhere where he could survive in the wild and I hope his decendants are still living in Abbey Wood.

Lori

[djackso]

Hi Lori - I just heard something interesting on a recording of an LBC radio program broadcast in the last week or so. Yvonne from Barnes rang Clive Bull to say she had come across a 2 inch beetle that crawled over her patio and up her wall - it gave her a fright. She said it was black and shiny and she kept repeating that she didn't think it was a stag beetle.

Hope you find this as interesting as I did.

DJ

[Lori]

djacko it is exciting. Wonder what it was? What a pity she didn't get a photo! Maybe it was what Jan saw in her post in the Se1 forum under my topic 'Mystery Box'.

It isn't my beetle though, mine wasn't the least bit shiny. It was charcoal black.

I took a break from trawling through beetle sites as I was all beetled out. What keeps sticking in my mind is that although I was very young the first time I saw it I didn't recognise it as a beetle at all. I couldn't figure out what it was.. thats why I called my mother to look at it.

The second sighting was when a group of kids were looking at the beetle. I'm sure the only reason they hadn't kicked it around before I got there was that it was so bizarre that their curiosity or discussion as to what it was saved it.

The last time, when I was an adult, a man stopped to look. He didn't know what to make of it but thought it nightmarish whatever it was.

My point is that I bet if you showed a group of 5 year olds a beetle of almost any sort they'd recognise it as such or at the very least, an insect of some sort. I didn't, yet I had already driven my parents to distraction with my interest in what they called creepy crawlies.

I have almost given up, but will still chase down any lead in the hopes that the creature still exists. Please keep an eye out for anything promising that pops up, its very much appreciated.