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| 1 | 2 | » Stats |
Members: 50,147
Threads: 82,324
Posts: 853,111
Top Poster: glsammy (15,069) | | Welcome to our newest member, aliciahellawell | |  | 
29-01-2008, 07:22 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belvedere, Kent
Posts: 10,029
| | | IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Hi,
Can anyone help me and Tom with his biology homework?
He has to submit a paper with eight bullet points about bees, one of which must be their IUCN red list status. In spite of all the information we can find about bees being under threat they do not appear to be on the red list at any level, not even "least concern".
We've been on the red list web site at IUCN Red List of Threatened Species | Search Home and tried a simple search for bee. This returned Wallace's Giant Bee and the Bee Hummingbird. Searching for Bombus returned Chaetocercus bombus which is a bird not a bee!
We then tried an expert search and got as far as... Kingdom: ANIMALIA
Phylum: ARTHROPODA
Class: INSECTA
Order: HYMENOPTERA But when we tried to select family APIDAE it's not in the drop-down list.
Can it really be true that there are no bees threatened enough to make it onto the red list?
Dave P.
__________________ (a.k.a. "Horizontal Dave")
"A good man is hard to find, especially if he's hiding. In a field. With combat fatigues and a false beard." - Wilson Dixon | 
29-01-2008, 07:25 PM
|  | Knight Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, FPRSY
Posts: 7,655
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees There's another thread about RDB endangered species. I wonder if the people who set the question might be confusing IUCN ( i.e. internationally endangered) species with British RDB species? It would be well worth asking the teacher for clarification. Good luck.
PS: I wouldn't expect any British species to be on the IUCN list - the ones that are rare may be locally endangered but common enough on the continent. Quote:
Originally Posted by pressld2 Hi,
Can anyone help me and Tom with his biology homework?
He has to submit a paper with eight bullet points about bees, one of which must be their IUCN red list status. In spite of all the information we can find about bees being under threat they do not appear to be on the red list at any level, not even "least concern".
We've been on the red list web site at IUCN Red List of Threatened Species | Search Home and tried a simple search for bee. This returned Wallace's Giant Bee and the Bee Hummingbird. Searching for Bombus returned Chaetocercus bombus which is a bird not a bee!
We then tried an expert search and got as far as... Kingdom: ANIMALIA
Phylum: ARTHROPODA
Class: INSECTA
Order: HYMENOPTERA But when we tried to select family APIDAE it's not in the drop-down list.
Can it really be true that there are no bees threatened enough to make it onto the red list?
Dave P. |
Last edited by Paul mabbott; 29-01-2008 at 07:27 PM.
Reason: clarification
| 
29-01-2008, 08:52 PM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 218
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Dave,
Red Data Books have been published for various species in Britain, and in recent years (since about 1994) the criteria used for the various RDB categories in Britain have been brought in line with the criteria used internationally by IUCN. The RDB statuses for British bumblebees were designated before the IUCN guidance existed, so although two bumblebees are given RDB status in Britain this doesn't really relate to the IUCN criteria.
(There are various differences between the old RDB criteria and the new IUCN ones, but to simplify the old ones were based more on rarity, while the IUCN ones also take into account decline and other factors.)
A complete list of current officially recognised statuses for all species (not just bumblebees) can be downloaded from the JNCC website: Download species designations
This download produces a fairly enormous spreadsheet, which can take some getting used to, but in amongst it there is a worksheet called "summary for each taxon" and you can use this to discover which species have which designation.
Only two bumblebees have RDB status in Britain, Bombus cullumanus (listed as RDB1, Endangered) and Bombus pomorum (listed as Extinct). In fact both species are now believed extinct, cullumanus having not been recorded since 1926 and pomoroum not since the mid 1800s (and it may not have been an established British species even then).
The JNCC spreadsheet also shows that a number of other Bombus species are classified as Notable A or Notable B, nowadays often referred to as Nationally Scarce, and denoting species that are rare but not as rare as RDB species. However, these statuses were assigned in the early 1990s and for many species the sitution has now changed, either for better or worse, so these statuses need to be used with care. BWARS (Bees, Wasps and Ants Recording Scheme) has up-to-date information on the distribution of bumblebees (see BWARS Home Page) and I assume that a revised RDB/Nationally Scarce list will be produced one day.
A number of bumblebees listed as Priority species in the UK Biodiversity Action Plan - this is in fact the most up-to-date list of bumblebees of conservation concern, as it was reviewed in 2007, but uses different criteria to the RDB listings. However, the BAP listings highlight the fact that many of our Bombus species are doing very badly, and are in need of conservation.
It's all a horribly messy and confusing picture, but I hope the above helps with the assignment!
Martin
Martin Harvey
Bucks and Milton Keynes Environmental Records Centre | 
29-01-2008, 08:52 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belvedere, Kent
Posts: 10,029
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul mabbott I wonder if the people who set the question might be confusing IUCN (i.e. internationally endangered) species with British RDB species? | Thanks Paul, I expect that's it. He's done a draft which outlines the threat status of bees in Britain (and even more locally with reference to Kent's RDB) and will talk to his teacher tomorrow for clarification.
Dave P.
__________________ (a.k.a. "Horizontal Dave")
"A good man is hard to find, especially if he's hiding. In a field. With combat fatigues and a false beard." - Wilson Dixon | 
29-01-2008, 09:18 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belvedere, Kent
Posts: 10,029
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Quote:
Originally Posted by haematocephalus It's all a horribly messy and confusing picture | You can say that again! I'm struggling to understand how all the different lists and designations hang together and beginning to realise that in many cases they don't! Quote:
Originally Posted by haematocephalus I hope the above helps with the assignment! | It certainly does - thanks for posting it! Leaving aside Tom's homework it makes interesting (if often depressing) reading. That spreadsheet is a very useful resource.
Dave P.
__________________ (a.k.a. "Horizontal Dave")
"A good man is hard to find, especially if he's hiding. In a field. With combat fatigues and a false beard." - Wilson Dixon | 
30-01-2008, 10:21 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Salisbury; Wilts
Posts: 2,308
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees You may be surprised (or amazed) to learn that I attended a meeting today with a colleague and a senior representative of JNCC (the statutory body in UK responsible for red listing) to discuss the processes of producing the new red list of UK Bees Wasps and Ants in line with the internationally recognised IUCN criteria. The ground work is now being done and, after a lengthy consultation process, there will be a new list later this year (not quite sure when). This process will take time because the expert review team will not be paid for their time or expertise
The UK was about the first country to undertake systematic insect red listing, but the process is in urgent need of updating. Many European countries now have red lists of bees (about 14 at the last count), and a couple of others - Russia and Hungary) have evaluated their bumbles (but not all bees). We really must not lag behind our hard working colleagues in Estonia and Moldova.
It is very likely that a number of Bombus species are likely to receive threat statuses in UK once the process is completed.
There is also some talk of a European red list for bees and it is likely that at least 3 species would be listed at the continental scale: Bombus cullumanus (on the brink of extinction), Bombus gaersteckeri (A highly specialised alpine bumble foraging only at Aconitum) and Bombus confusus (massively declined across its range).
On a global scale, I was told recently by a Canadian bombologist, that Bombus franklini (found only in a single valley in the Rocky Mountains in northern US) will be included in future global red lists. We will no doubt see.
Red Listing is a straight listing of "threatenedness" and has no legal status at all. BAP listing, however, DOES carry legal weight. The two things are not the same. | 
30-01-2008, 10:27 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Salisbury; Wilts
Posts: 2,308
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees You mentioned Wallace's Giant Bee - Megachile ( Chalicodoma) pluto... Here is a pic of said bee. Body size variation in bees on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
This is the holotype specimen, collected by Wallace himself in Indonesia, and kept in the Oxford Museum of Natural History | 
31-01-2008, 02:08 AM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Redditch, West Midlands
Posts: 142
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees surely there are enough of us on here to simply compile our own RDB list... i mean how hard can it be to do... we could certainly get enough spotters to hit endangered levels before we start to run thin.. perhaps we should give it a go...
but then, someone has to correlate, and confirm ID infact... its hard work... i vote we let someone else do the paperwork, and assume everything is endangered and do our best to help
__________________ It is better to Die for others than live for yourself | 
31-01-2008, 08:33 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Salisbury; Wilts
Posts: 2,308
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Quote:
Originally Posted by thes3raph1m surely there are enough of us on here to simply compile our own RDB list... i mean how hard can it be to do... we could certainly get enough spotters to hit endangered levels before we start to run thin.. perhaps we should give it a go... | hehehe!
Before you decide to launch into this, here are some things that the review team will need!:
1) Accurate and detailed distribution data which can be studied over varying time slices to assess % decline
2) State of the art software to assess areas occupied and the extent of occupation,
3) A sound and sure taxonomic base (to include the knowledge of the history of how names have been applied)
4) A good knowledge of the history of recording in the UK
5) Information on relative recording coverage of each species
6) A wide knowledge of the European and world distributions and threat statuses
7) Broad understanding of the ecology and general biology of 268 species of bees (+ about the same number of wasps.... and then there are ants too)
PLUS.... an ability to understand and use the Eurobabble in the IUCN literature (now much easier than it was). No longer is red listing just a matter of counting dots on a map
As for regarding everything as "Endangered".... If we are to be taken seriously (and we need to be if we are to inform conservation action)... then we have to be as accurate as possible in our assessments, and grant "Endangered" or "Critically Endangered" status only to those species which are deserving.
What seems very likely is that there will be some important changes in listed statuses. The bee Melitta dimidiata, for instance is currently listed as RDB1 (Endangered). The species occurs commonly as one large population over the military ranges on Salisbury Plain but is absent from the rest of UK... the nearest continental populations are in the southern Auvergne. The species is no rarer and no commoner than when the first Red List was drawn up about 25 years ago. However, using the new criteria which deal with decline and threats.. this species is very likely to be regarded as "VULNERABLE" rather than "Endangered". This would reflect a change in criteria and not that the bee has suddenly enjoyed a great resurgence in fortune.
Roll on the process!! | 
31-01-2008, 09:37 PM
|  | Moderator | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Belvedere, Kent
Posts: 10,029
| | | Re: IUCN Red List status of bumble bees Many thanks for the info eucera. Quite a coincidence, me asking the question on the day before your meeting!
With your help, along with Paul's and haematocephalus's, Tom should be able to give a pretty good answer to this question now (although possibly not the one his teacher is expecting  ).
Thanks also for posting the link to the picture of Wallace's Giant Bee - it certainly live's up to the "giant" part of its name!
Dave P.
__________________ (a.k.a. "Horizontal Dave")
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