Bumble Bee ID please

[black]

I photographed this bee last week feeding on Tufted Vetch nr St Cuthbert's Cave, Northumberland. Anyone know its ID? Thanks

[jezlee]

I'd have to say Bombus pascuorum - I don't know of any other bumble bee covered with brown hairs like this ... although this is one of the hairiest I have ever seen!

[eucera]

This could be B. muscorum. I can't see any black hairs anywhere on this specimen. However, it is somewhat faded as it is an old specimen. I'll consult more widely on this. You are certainly in the right area for B. muscorum

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by eucera

This could be B. muscorum. I can't see any black hairs anywhere on this specimen. However, it is somewhat faded as it is an old specimen. I'll consult more widely on this. You are certainly in the right area for B. muscorum

You see, you learn something new all the while! I thought B.pascuorum was the only bumble bee with 'brown fur' ...

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by jezlee

You see, you learn something new all the while! I thought B.pascuorum was the only bumble bee with 'brown fur' ...

there is B. humilis too just to make things more complex

[jezlee]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

there is B. humilis too just to make things more complex

Now you're taking the mickey ....

[black]

Thanks guys,
there were a couple of bees that I thought were Bombus pascuorum feeding on the same Tufted Vetch patch when I walked up to Cuthberts Cave. I saw this fella on the way back, just looked slightly different and jizz wise this fella had much more energy. The ones I thought were pascuorum seemed more lethargic whilst feeding on the vetch. It was damp and cold mind you.

[Bramble]

You bee experts have just thrown me into disarray. I had a gingery brown bee - clinging to a buttercup after a shower of rain - and so I immediately thought "pascuorum". Now you're telling us there are other brown bees! I got a horribly fuzzy pic of the poor creature, perhaps I'll post it and see if he's really a "fancy" bee!

[eucera]

Originally Posted by Bramble

You bee experts have just thrown me into disarray. I had a gingery brown bee - clinging to a buttercup after a shower of rain - and so I immediately thought "pascuorum". Now you're telling us there are other brown bees! I got a horribly fuzzy pic of the poor creature, perhaps I'll post it and see if he's really a "fancy" bee!

I reckon it is the bee diversity that has disarrayed you rather than us bombologists!

There are 3 ginger bumble species in UK

1) Bombus pascuorum. One of the "Big Six" species. Widespread, common, and catholic in its choice of forage and habitat. Almost always with at least some black hairs on the abdomen in England and Wales. A colour form exists in Scotland which is all-brown, and separation of this from other ginger species is a microscope job.

2) B. humilis. A BAP species. Scarce and in decline. Only found in any numbers in few localities (Dorset heaths, south Wales dunes, Salisbury Plain and the Thames corridor). Not in Scotland or Ireland. All ginger abdomen and usually with a few black hairs above the tegulae (wing bases)

3) B. muscorum. A BAP species. Scarce and in decline. More northern of distribution, with records from Scotland and Ireland. In England very local indeed, and found in damp grasslands, coastal dunes and calcareous grassland. VERY, VERY similar to B. humilis. Never has black hairs above the wing bases. Distinct, and different, island forms on the Outer Hebs, Aran Islands and Scilly and further afield, the Lofoten Islands

Both humilis and muscorum are particularly attracted to Fabaceous plants such as Vicia

Perhaps a quotation from the greatest of the Victorian bee specialists Edward Saunders is appropriate here:
"The species of Bombus are exceedingly difficult to distinguish apart, the colour of pubescence varies so greatly in different specimens of the same species that it is wise to rely only on structure as a character in the discrimination of species. These characters are often very obscure, and difficult to appreciate...... the most reliable character is the male genital armature...... but in the absence of the male, it is sometimes impossible to say for certain what a female or a worker is"

[GuyF]

Originally Posted by eucera

2) B. humilis. A BAP species. Scarce and in decline. Only found in any numbers in few localities (Dorset heaths, south Wales dunes, Salisbury Plain and the Thames corridor). Not in Scotland or Ireland. All ginger abdomen and usually with a few black hairs above the tegulae (wing bases)[/i]"

I was looking at some 'Carder Bee's' at Hartland Moor in Dorset recently and I didn't think they looked right for Bombus pascuorum, so they could've been this species. Next time I visit I will try and get a photo.
Guy