cats - a suitable pet?

[Karlos78]

Its cat behavior I object to, if they kill for instinct to feed themselves you can't argue with that, we do after all. But it’s the unnecessary killing which appears simply for fun or reward and not for the need to feed oneself. Oh wait a second this is human behavior as well isn’t it?

My point is, cats to a lesser degree behave just like us, so to answer the question is a cat a suitable pet, ask your self would you keep a human as a pet?

Karl.

[Shadowjewel]

Many animals that hunt, particularly the smarter ones, will 'play' with their food so long as long they aren't too hungry. Orcas, most members of the cat family, most canines, humans, chimps... the list goes on and on. Reasons for this could be practice (which is the main 'reason' for play anyway), combining the fun of play with the pleaser associated with food, inability to deny the hunt/kill instinct despite the fact that food is not an immediate concern... there could be many reasons. Even animals that don’t hunt may kill for reasons other then food; Robins kill each other in fights (they literally fight to the death by bashing the other bird's skull in with their beaks, even killing the opponent in a sneak attack sometimes); I have seen a swan kill a duckling by bludgeoning it with its beak, then flinging the corpse around until it got board and swam away; hippos are one of the most dangerous animals in Africa, who will kill more people next to waterholes then crocodiles...

Nature is brutal, extremely brutal. Its one of the things many people have trouble with, but fact is that nature, not just in the wild but 'domesticated' as well, is, according the world view that many of us have been brought up with, very, very nasty. It is my personal opinion that in order to fully appreciate nature, this is one of those harder truths we need to learn to accept, even if we cant all be comfortable with it.

If you can get along with the ruthless robin, why not the stealthy cat?

[oceanroc]

Where I live cats are close to vermin; in fact I would almost rather have the rats back (who inhabited our attic before we moved in). The cats wake us up, scare away the birds, oooo in the garden and yowl pointlessly at all hours of the night. I almost hate them.
I used to think they were O.K. but now I am considering getting a dog just to deter them a bit.

[pressld2]

[quote=Shadowjewel;127368]Robins kill each other in fights (they literally fight to the death by bashing the other bird's skull in with their beaks, even killing the opponent in a sneak attack sometimes)QUOTE]

Hi Shadowjewel and welcome to WAB.

While I agree with your main point about nature being "red in tooth and claw" I'm not convinced that Robins are any worse than any other territorial bird. I think they got this reputation following an “experiment” (more of a stunt, really) conducted by a TV wildlife documentary back in the 1970s.

They wired a speaker into a stuffed robin, placed it in a live robin’s territory, played robin song through it and then filmed what happened. What happened was the live robin tore the stuffed one into tiny little pieces and spread them over a large area. Ever since then we keep hearing about how vicious robins are. But this “experiment” has a major flaw: In a real territorial dispute between two live robins one of them will almost always concede defeat and fly away before any real damage is done and often before a blow has even been struck. Usually posturing and shouting is enough to make one of them back down. But the stuffed robin obviously couldn’t fly away nor could it out-bluster the live one. This put the live robin in an impossible position – he had no reason to back down himself because he wasn’t being threatened or attacked by the inanimate stuffed one so he had no choice but to continue his attack to the bitter end. I suspect that if you repeated this experiment with any territorial bird (or animal for that matter) you’d get pretty much the same result.

Of course, I could be completely wrong and the reason they did the experiment with robins in the first place is that they were already known to be vicious little beggars!

Dave P.

[RogerTheCat]

Originally Posted by Karlos78

Its cat behavior I object to, if they kill for instinct to feed themselves you can't argue with that, we do after all. But it’s the unnecessary killing which appears simply for fun or reward and not for the need to feed oneself. Oh wait a second this is human behavior as well isn’t it?

My point is, cats to a lesser degree behave just like us, so to answer the question is a cat a suitable pet, ask your self would you keep a human as a pet?

Karl.

A human can be toilet trained and will not climb into neighbours gardens to defecate. Also you can explain to a human the concept of cruelty and that rare species should not be hunted or hunted only during set months so ensuring parents are not killed during breeding season leaving the young to starve. If it is in a cats nature to do this and you can not stop them then the question must be asked should we keep them as pets? Cats

Also just because an animal mirrors unacceptable behaviour that does not make the behaviour acceptable. Must people have had the converstaion with thier parents that all thier mates are doing something so it is ok for me to do it. It it is a flawed logic.

PS Have a good weekend putting up sheds

[Carl]

Originally Posted by brainfarmer

ive had domestic moggies for over 30 years, some have been real killers leaving their 'gifts' on the doorstep. ive belled them to little or no effect on their hunting. they have been great pets for me and its only recently ive been debating with myself if my desire to keep a cat is outweighed by their impact on wildlife considering the creatures they will kill from Rabbits to birds.
i think ive decided i wont keep cats anymore ( i wouldnt even consider having a cat indoors 24/7). what are other peoples views on domestic cats?

That stupid mate, it`s just nature, i mean you might aswell say you ain`t having or gonna have kids cause humans are animals and some of us do animal cruetly we do alot of harm to the environment etc.
It just in there blood, it keeps the food chain going e.g don`t have to much of one animal.
So yer if i was you i`d keep getting cats.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Crowman

Apparently cats kill 15 million birds and small mammals every year.

Must retrain my Gerbils to kill cats!

And!!!!!
We do more harm then cats.

[ECD]

I've had cats all my life, and at the moment we have 5, one of which is more a tormentor than actual killer although I have been told she's had one bird that we know of in 2 years. Our connifer in the bsck was up to the height of the house but Ruby used to climb to the top and back down with no problem, and even that didnt stop the birds nesting up there! In fact, due to the lack of trees in our back way (people seem to have developed this thing for all things concrete ) I have been finding birds coming to us that I haven't seen around for years which has been great. I'm currently trying to plan out where I want to put some new bird feeding stations as we've now got magpies, pigeons, black birds, thrushes, sparrows and blue tits coming to feed and I want to provide them with a bit more safety.

So from a personal point of view, I could never be without a cat but I do understand why wildlife lovers find their habits somewhat murderous. But there again, its the cats nature to kill even though the domesticated ones are normally well fed and cared for; its what they are and it is all part of nature still no matter how much we may dislike it. When ever I can I will always stop an animal I see stalking my wildlife but I know I cant always be there to do so, but I'll go to what ever lenghts I can to keep the bird population happy too

[Shadowjewel]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Of course, I could be completely wrong and the reason they did the experiment with robins in the first place is that they were already known to be vicious little beggars!

That's an interesting experiment, never heard that one before - can’t say I’m surprised by the robin’s reaction though.

I had meant to put that they CAN kill each other in a fight, typo on my part there.

I am still of the opinion that robins are vicious when they come to blows - I have seen them fight a few times before; the blackbirds and other birds I have seen have nothing on them !! I watched a particularly nasty one, even by robin standards, a few years ago... there was one very dead robin by the end... though, even the victor didn't look too good after that, not sure what happened to him. I only know that there was a robin nesting in the ivy a short while after that, no idea if it was the same as the one in that fight.

[galanthus]

During a visit to a client yesterday her cat dived into the lounge through the window surrounded by horrifying squealing. She had a beautiful shrew in her mouth, I was mortified Horrible and cruel, all this with a full dish of cat food by the door As the client was terrified she fled out of the room, I am not ashamed to say I smacked the cat's nose, it dropped the shrew which was just in shock and I put it over a fence onto the mountain. Words cannot express how disgusting it feels to have so many owned all over Britain.

[Urisk]

I find it rather amusing to note that so many people here say they are animal lovers, and yet express so much disgust for cats, like they are vermin or something.


I think we should compile a list of animals that we should hate, as a result of their impact on small birds and animals:


Crows,
magpies,
Weasels,
Stoats,
grey AND Red Squirrels (eat young and eggs),
cuckoos,
pine martins,
foxes,
rats,
jays,
deer (strip trees of bark- causes masive damage),
kestrels,
Hedgehogs,
Badgers,
dogs,
sparrowhawks,
feral pet birds (escapees can oust natives),
Mink,
owls,
pike and other predatory fishes,
ducks,
swans

The list will undoubtedly go on.

Of course the biggest name on the list is of course MAN. As they say about dogs, I think it rings true for cats here too, "Blame the deed, NOT the breed!" Stop tarring all cats with the same brush. Maybe the majority of them do bring home a mouse or a bird once in a blue moon, heck, my cat kills mice, Rabbits and other pests (that's why we have her), but they are NOT some evil master-race intent on generating some sort of conspiracy. They are just wild animals. And wild animals hunt. You can't repress instinct, nor can you try and humanise an animal. That just degrades it.

[galanthus]

If we work on the premise they are wild animals, why do people profess to 'own' them ? If they were left only in the wild their number would be controlled by natural conditions such as food availability; predators;weather conditions etc. however, humans harbour them and therefore there is no balance between the number of cats and the food it kills.

[mallain]

We've recently bought a somali cat and were also worried about wildlife.
Hopefully we have been fairly succesful in reducing any chances of him killing birds.
We got him used to a routine of only going out through the day, i.e whilst it is daylight.
He is always back in before dusk, and settles down to sleep through the evening/night.
He also is always provided a tray, he comes back in to use it and if we go out it is left outside for him.
He was provided a collar with two bells but were horrified when we found him with a dead pigeon in the garden, which we have assumed was either sick or already dead when he got hold of it. But a week later he turned up at the doorstep with a dunnock. Which upset us greatly, we thought about keeping him in. But I did a search on the internet and found a cat collar that emits a sonic beep every 7s.
I ordered one and he now has this collar put on each day before he goes out.
Thankfully he has not managed to creep upto any birds since he has had this collar and he has been wearing it since march!.
Also Blackbirds managed to succesfully raise 5 young birds in our garden, the Dad bird would bring them into the kitchen and give them teddy's cat food!! luckily he was always somewhere else when this occurred!

Here is a link to Teddy wearing his collar which you can hear beeping!
YouTube - Teddy the Somali Cat playing in the garden

All this effort seems to be worthwhile and cats soon get used to their new routine!

[galanthus]

cool where did you get it ? My neighbour has 4 cats and her use of bells declined since one of her cats got caught on the tree last year.

[mallain]

Originally Posted by galanthus

cool where did you get it ? My neighbour has 4 cats and her use of bells declined since one of her cats got caught on the tree last year.

I got it from Willana Life Sciences:
Willana Lifesciences Catalert

My cat actually lost his, it has a safety clip which comes apart if it gets caught!. So I purchased another one, but a couple of days later my neighbour returned the original collar!.. After searching her shed, thinking our cat was in there, she found his collar caught underneath!!

[galanthus]

Fab ta loads, neighbours' new pressie methinks

[Caitlinbeardmore]

From what i can see. The whole animal kingdom both small and large are all part of the food chain in some way. I have been a cat owner all my life and i have cried and shouted at my cats each time they have caught small creatures, to no avail, its all part of its make up.

No different than birds catching and killing worms - still a life - small mammals killing smaller mammals, crocs killing deer etc. i don't like to see any of it...

the one thing i do know...and readers may think that i am odd. In most cases animals, mammals, insects and most creatures kill for food - some humans kill for fun!

[Deer Hunter]

I'm someone who ran a Wildlife Rescue Centre for over twenty years and a cat lover. In that time I saw first hand what cats can do to our wildlife in particular birds.

I also saw the carnage that sparrowhawks can do to birds and owls to small mammals.

I rest my case!

[Urisk]

Originally Posted by galanthus

If we work on the premise they are wild animals, why do people profess to 'own' them ? If they were left only in the wild their number would be controlled by natural conditions such as food availability; predators;weather conditions etc. however, humans harbour them and therefore there is no balance between the number of cats and the food it kills.

But that's not the cat's fault, that is the human's fault. And in the case of "owning" them. That's down to human ego. We like to think we own them, but isn't it really the other way about? Think about it, we feed them, give them shelter, provide for them, keep them healthy. Essentially we are their slaves. The only thing that would remotely dictate ownership would be the handling of cash. This goes for dogs as well. THEY let YOU know when THEY want out! When THEY want made of, when THEY'RE hungry. I suppose the exception could be working dogs, but even still there are loopholes here (plus it's more like they are in your employment). No one really owns a cat, because a cat can up and leave any time they want. They just choose to hang around because it's an easier life. At the end of the day, they still are wild animals (for the most part), I suppose similar to an urban Fox, but more used to human contact. Again, I stress that it is our fault, and not the cat's.

[C C]

Stop tarring all cats with the same brush.

Same goes for humans! i spend virtually all my free time on Environmental and Conservation projects.

There is a Lapwing colony near me, nearly wiped out through cats, down two three breeding pairs. Yet again! i suppose its the Lapwings fault for breeding to close to an HUMAN SETTLEMENT.

[Urisk]

C C, you're right about cats. Regarding the lapwing issue, it's not really the lapwings' faults either. Humans are actually a highly invasive species, and the way the push out our habitats puts a lot of strain on natural populations, who quickly lose land where they can live and breed, because of us humans and our expansion. That said, animals can live quite happily in conjunction with us, and have been shown to readily adapt to our environments. Humans are easier to tar with the same brush than cats because humans can communicate to a very articulate level their thoughts and feelings, and thus can make everyone aware of their intentions. You can't communicate such things to a cat because of the communication barrier (which sounds totally stupid I know, but it's a simple fact that is the key factor here!). Essentially humans should know better and yet still don't change their attitude or behaviour. Classic case just now is the Government, regarding this whole "Global Warming" uproar, and yet still nothing's being done. However, this is a family site so I won't divulge further my political views here.


Like the phrase goes- Blame the deed, NOT the breed. It's cruel to break an animal into repressing fully its natural instincts. you don't try and put a stop to the human desire to "have babies" or the dog's desire to mark its territory by urinating on trees, lamp posts etc, and you can't condemn a cat for wanting to hunt. Or at least that's what I reckon.

[Mr Mag00]

I also saw the carnage that sparrowhawks can do to birds and owls to small mammals.

yes but they are part of the ecosystem and food chain and they dont number approx 10 million like cats do!! pointless statement in my view.

[overgrownbramble]

Always that same ole line "it's nature, it's natural for cats to kill and kill"... can't change/train them, can't control them, etc and heaven forbid can't keep them indoors.

Which answers the original question then, they are NOT suitable as pets.

[demicav]

Originally Posted by overgrownbramble

Always that same ole line "it's nature, it's natural for cats to kill and kill"... can't change/train them, can't control them, etc and heaven forbid can't keep them indoors.

Which answers the original question then, they are NOT suitable as pets.

Humans domesticated cats, if they suddenly stopped being kept as pets that would mean millions of cats for the slaughter. It's just not feasible. I've never kept cats myself but accept that others may choose to do so. It's not nice when they kill birds but that IS their instinct. I wouldn't say that disqualified them from being kept as pets. That's a personal choice.