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| 1 | 2 | » Stats |
Members: 50,142
Threads: 82,311
Posts: 853,030
Top Poster: glsammy (15,069) | | Welcome to our newest member, Posbyonechop | |  | | 
14-11-2011, 07:18 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London
Posts: 4,915
| | | Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? I was walking through a Horbeam wood and noticed the fruits (not sure what they are called) hanging down in fairly large quantities. I looked for anything feeding on them. Either in the trees or on the path. I couldn't see any bird or animal near them. I found a fruit low enough to pick and tried to break it open. It seemed very tough. I reached a convenient flat-topped post and used the butt of my knife to crack the thing open. It wasn't too difficult, but wondered what animal would be able to do this. Then I saw the pitiful amount of flesh within the pip-like fruit and wondered what animal would bother. 
I then remembered how this tree's canopy can block light getting to the ground in summer, reducing the number of herbs beneath. I decided that this was a rather unforgiving tree. At least where wildlife is concerned. Am I right?
__________________ Rejoicing in ordinary things is not sentimental or trite. It actually takes guts ― Pema Chödrön | 
14-11-2011, 07:25 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: On the southern boundary of the Lake District National Park.
Posts: 4,577
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? I'm disturbed that you have decided to determine the hornbeam as unforgiving!!!
I wish I could walk through a hornbeam wood. A beautiful tree with attractive bark markings and probably as much shade bearing as beech.
You're right about the seeds, perhaps small rodents enjoy them when they've fallen. There's not so many hornbeams oop in this neck of the woods and I rarely get a opportunity to put my arms around one. | 
14-11-2011, 07:32 AM
|  | Dame Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: North Kent
Posts: 9,725
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)?
__________________ The female of the species is more deadly than the male.:p | 
14-11-2011, 07:48 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London
Posts: 4,915
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? Very interesting link Jules - right up my street. Thanks.
Woodman, if you read that link, you'll see why I now want to change "unforgiving" to "downright miserable". Why you'd want to find such a grumpy old being a give it a hug I'll never know.
I will admit that when I first moved to these parts and studied a local walkway lined with them, I did marvel at their beauty. But it's a sterile beauty beneath which beats a cold, dark heart.
I believe the Hawfinches could have been their saving grace. But even these birds seem to have given up on them. They haven't been seen in the wood for many a year.
Chainsaw the lot of them!
Unless there is an animal that relies on them, of course. Then I might change my mind.
__________________ Rejoicing in ordinary things is not sentimental or trite. It actually takes guts ― Pema Chödrön | 
14-11-2011, 07:56 AM
|  | Member of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: North London
Posts: 466
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? According to the Hainault Forest website, "Mice, voles and birds feed on the nuts and it is a favourite with the Hawfinch."
Loads of them in Wanstead Park, which I think used to be part of Epping Forest. When we lived in Ilford, we loved to go walking there- especially in the bluebell woods in spring. If you're ever in that part of East London in May, you'd be in for a treat... beautiful.
I think the trees in this photo I took there several years ago are hornbeams...
sorry about the quality, it was overcast that day. | 
14-11-2011, 08:08 AM
|  | Knight Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sheffield, FPRSY
Posts: 7,655
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? Since when did hornbeams cease to be wildlife? I think you're taking a very vertebratocentric view! Apart from anything else, hornbeam defines the dominant habitat of SE England.
We should also not forget the human aspect, hornbeams were conventionally coppiced/pollarded providing an important structural/architectural diversity in woods. | 
14-11-2011, 09:35 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: London
Posts: 4,915
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? Ha, ha, I take your point. But still, coppicing means cutting them down (periodically). I haven't been convinced they shouldn't all be razed to the ground. Let other species have a chance.
Jae - beautiful wood, I agree.
__________________ Rejoicing in ordinary things is not sentimental or trite. It actually takes guts ― Pema Chödrön
Last edited by Deb London; 14-11-2011 at 09:37 AM.
| 
14-11-2011, 09:51 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: South Wales
Posts: 1,065
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb London Woodman, if you read that link, you'll see why I now want to change "unforgiving" to "downright miserable". Why you'd want to find such a grumpy old being a give it a hug I'll never know.  I will admit that when I first moved to these parts and studied a local walkway lined with them, I did marvel at their beauty. But it's a sterile beauty beneath which beats a cold, dark heart. I believe the Hawfinches could have been their saving grace. But even these birds seem to have given up on them. They haven't been seen in the wood for many a year. Chainsaw the lot of them! Unless there is an animal that relies on them, of course. Then I might change my mind.  | Humour aside, there are some important caveats on the web page: The value of different tree species for insects and lichens "Species diversity is not the same as biomass. A tree species may have relatively few insect species associated with it, but if the insects which are associated with it occur in huge numbers (e.g. aphids) then that tree may harbour an enormously important source of food for other animals. A tree's value for wildlife does not therefore necessarily equate to the number of species directly associated with it."
and Much of the table above is derived from a paper by Southwood (1961). The data from this immensely useful paper is based upon tree foliage eaters. However, trees obviously provide a range of resources for species other than those simply eating their foliage. Southwood also concentrated on species specifically linked to particular tree species and deliberately omitted those species feeding on a wide range of host tree species.
As already noted hornbeam is a character species of S.E England, adapted for the clay soils typical of the region. Taking 'supported invertebrate species load' as the sole recommendation for whether a tree species is valuable for wildlife would lead us toward Oak monoculture as the primary base for all wildlife forest irrespective of geography; clearly such conclusion is not supportable. Where mature (uncoppiced) hornbeam woodland actually fits in to the historical and (desirable) modern pattern of support for a diverse ecology is no doubt a matter of ongoing debate, but undoubtedly hornbean 'belongs' in S.E England and wildlife management needs to 'fit' hornbeam in the overall tapestry.
In very unscientific terms I always think of of hornbeam as being the lowland counterpart of beech, which fares less well on the clay soils but thrives on the chalk downlands from which hornbeam is absent. Beech has a higher supported species range, and its fruits are certaily more accessible, but then hornbeam has developed an adaptave edge that beech hasn't.
CM | 
14-11-2011, 10:34 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Watford, Hertfordshire.
Posts: 4,860
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? We get a lot of hornbeams around here. I just view them as 'wallpaper trees' - just part of the background, but of no particular interest!
Jim | 
14-11-2011, 11:04 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 2,756
| | | Re: Is the Hornbeam any blummin' use (for wildlife)? There is a very nice pleached hornbeam hide at Ford Abbey in Dorset by the lake, with lovely views of the waterfowl. Quite a good use for this tree!
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