Dog on dog attacks, law, muzzles etc.

[APC]

A couple of days ago, I was driving past gate of my park and saw two couples of dog walkers getting very animated. I pulled over and waded in before it got physical. The jist of the argument was that one couple with a staff bull terrier was getting out of their car with their dog on a lead. The other couple were at the gate with their retriever, also on a lead. The staff yanked the lead and the owner wasn't able to hold on and it ran to the retriever and clamped its jaws around his neck. The retrievers owner tried to pull them apart but ended up kicking the staffie as it wouldn't let go. The other staffies owners kicked right off about this attack on their dog and it spiralled from there. The police had been called by someone else and arrived a few minutes after I did. The retriever was shaken but didn't appear to have puncture wounds. It was almost pushed in front of a bus by the staffie.

I know both owners and both dogs. The retriever is a pushover. The staffie is out of control, but on a lead 99% of the time. I know it is off the lead only when there is noone around. The problem is that if the owner can't hold onto their dog and it goes and does something like this, sooner or later its going to seriously injure or kill another dog or worse, a person. The police advised them to muzzle it but said they couldn't enforce this. When does a dangerous, out of control dog become recognised as such? The owner was bleating that the others were just anti-staffie and didn't know anything. They didn't seem to accept any sort of responsibility. I need to safeguard the visitors to my park but the law doesn't seem to recognise early warnings, therefore I don't appreciate any backup if I insist on them muzzling inside the park gates.

Annacodotely, this dog has been kicked from attacking at least one other dog. I can't back it up but this is what I have been told by a friend of another dog walker.

Has anyone had any similar situations, if so, what did you do, how did it pan out etc.

Cheers.

[eeyore]

As far as i'm aware the unfortunate answer is that dog on dog attacks are considered an act of god , although a dog can be classed as a weapon so the owners can be prosecuted if they deliberately set it on another dog (or anything else)

so unfortunately the police are only going to act if it attacks a person or livestock
, you could try the local council dog warden if any - but their powers of action are going to be fairly limited
that said if your park is private property where access is by permission, i.e not accessed by footpaths you , or more likely your senior management , could ban the owners of the staffy, or make them muzzle it as a condition of entry - you can also legimiately ask them to leave if they are causing nuisance to other users.

the other option is the press and the 'court of public opinion' I wouldnt advise you to involve the media yourself (bosses may frown on this kind of thing) but it would certainly be an optioon for the owners of the retreiver

[APC]

Thanks for your reply!

I'm certainly up for insisting on a muzzle. It's land owned by county council. I wouldn't dream of going to the press myself, it'll just turn into a "all staffies should be banned" bunfight which I'm not up for. The park policy is dogs under control. This is either on a lead or off the lead but able to be recalled and not being a pain in the backside.

I think the owners will kick off at me for the suggestion, and I'm fairly certain they will cross swords with the other dog owners at some point. I'd rather they just didn't talk to each other, which I'll tell to them next time I see them (probably tomorrow morning). If they do kick off though, at me or the others, then they'll find themselves jogged on with their dog for evermore.

[eeyore]

The other thing you could look at is running some doggie do type events aimed at dog owners and promoting responsible ownership ( you know the sort of thing, dog aghility show/try out, get a dog groomer alomg, run a series of woofy walks, dog with the waggiest tale compo etc) then using that as a vehicle you could get a staffie owners group involved and use the whole occasion to enforce the idea that your park welcomes dogs but that you expect the owners to behave responsibly - and get positive press coverage that way.

I know budget is a concern, especially these days, but the last one I ran we got a local pet outlet to sponsor so it was guaranteed to be revenue neuatral and actually turned a slight profit.

[APC]

As much as I like the idea, the area I am in will have all the responsible ones turn up and all of the problem dogs won't go near it, why should they be preached at?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by APC

As much as I like the idea, the area I am in will have all the responsible ones turn up and all of the problem dogs won't go near it, why should they be preached at?

the idea isnt to preach - but to give the responsible dog owers a fun and enjoyable day ( the last one i ran we had a dog agility group come who let other people and dogs have a go on their equipment, we had a dog groomer , and a fun dog compo) and on the back of that use the media attention to engage with dog owners groups etc

if you have, for example, a staffie owners group firmly on your side it is much harder for an irresponsible owner to alledge that you are anti staffie.

Another option is to contact your local police dog units and invite them to use the park to exercise their dogs (they are usually happy to oblige as the last thing they want is their dogs stuck in their vehicles all day) that gives you a higher on site police presence and people who can help you engage dog owners both good and bad

[wizzo]

Personally, having been on the recieving end of two similar attacks, I now take measures to avoid this when walking my dogs. The law wont protect your beloved dogs so I'm always prepared, when out, for a possible attack. In order to do this, I have to break the law myself, but sometimes there is simply no option. I hope I never have to take 'evasive;.' action, but if I have to, I'll face the consequences if I must. I'm just really angry that responsible dog owners like me are forced into this position to protect our animals. Wizzo

[stevecurtis]

Found this on the net may be of interest.
Section 3(1) Dangerous Dogs Act 1991
This part of the Dangerous Dogs Act applies to every single dog in England & Wales, no matter whether it is a pure bred dog, cross or a mongrel and regardless of its size.


This is a criminal offence which can be brought against the owner of a dog (and if different the person in charge of a dog) if a dog is:
a. dangerously out of control
b. in a public place
'Dangerously out of control' is defined as being 'on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person'. Generally, if a dog bites someone then it will be presumed to have been dangerously out of control.


'Public place' is defined as including any place 'to which the public have or are permitted to have access'.


The Police have the discretionary power to seize a dog (although they may need a warrant) but there is no provision for 'bail' for the dog pending a conclusion at Court.

Steve

[Billabong Karen]

Originally Posted by wizzo

Personally, having been on the recieving end of two similar attacks, I now take measures to avoid this when walking my dogs. The law wont protect your beloved dogs so I'm always prepared, when out, for a possible attack. In order to do this, I have to break the law myself, but sometimes there is simply no option. I hope I never have to take 'evasive;.' action, but if I have to, I'll face the consequences if I must. I'm just really angry that responsible dog owners like me are forced into this position to protect our animals. Wizzo

I'm with you Wizzo. My (now ancient) labrador/spaniel cross was attacked by a staffie cross when just a puppy. The owner just laughed, and told me to go ahead and get him off if I could. The staffie was killing my dog; and I could do next to nothing - I was screaming and crying, and my dog was unconscious on the floor and having the life torn out of him, before the staffie owner eventually pulled a stick out of his pocket, put it between the jaws of his dog, and levered his mouth open. He looked me up and down, and said 'I'm tired of telling people he's fierce. This way you'll stay out of my way in future'.

My dog recovered; I told the police but they never caught the man or his dog. This was in a public park; I dread to think what might have happened to a child, for instance.

I carry pepper spray with me on every dog walk now. I am never going to let a thing like that happen to me again. I know dogs fight - but this was a killer on a mission; with an owner to match.

Almost as bad are dog owners who allow their dogs to race around unchecked, chasing and harrying wildlife. I've said it before and will do so again - there should be a mandatory 'dog owners licence', including a course and test, before anyone should be allowed to own a dog.

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by stevecurtis

This is a criminal offence which can be brought against the owner of a dog (and if different the person in charge of a dog) if a dog is:
a. dangerously out of control
b. in a public place

So who's going to enforce it?

The Police have the discretionary power to seize a dog

Police? Ah yes, I remember them - didn't they used to go out on the streets enforcing laws?

Jim