Big Cats Living As Wild In The Uk

[gaviston]

I recently saw a tiger cub being fed by a rabbit and a male Lion being swollowed by a grass snake.

[naturegirl]

Well I for one have had 2 sightings of a big cat, a puma living in a forest near me in south east kent.

A lot of adventurous dogs have disappeared there over recent years and a friend of mine lost a goat that was in a stable with the top half of the door open.

This area is also lived in by wild boar and deer and is a sizable forest.

I can only relate to what I saw and it WAS a puma. I have no axe to grind here and wish no fame or fortune.

Naturegirl

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

That kid was basically lying - most the big cat experts in the UK dismiss his account but its media friendly so the media keep running with it.
Ive actually met John McGowan and Ive seen some pretty interesting photos of foot prints and scat. The problem is I think hes a bit of a technophobe as he uses a film camera (On itsa own doesn't mean much) and the only web presence is what others have put online. As for seaking fame John McGowan has quite the opposite attitude in my opinion and seemed more concerned with finding proof. He told me of many sightings hes had in Dorset and around the New forest.
John is a decent bloke, and why there are people trying to cash in on the big cats, nessies and bigfoots, he certainly isnt one of them

Perhaps it's the way the footage has been edited but the stuff i've seen with John McGowan in he talks about he's sightings as if it happens everyday.
If he sees the cats & there tracks ect regularly why hasn't he got any footage or pics.
The hair samples that he had tested were as said in a previous post Sika Deer,Red Deer,Dog and Pig.
Also he set up cameras at nature reserves but not his so called regular sites.
If he had seen them it woundn't be that hard to get concrete evidence.
I genuinely hope they exist but with out evidence we have nothing to go on

[The Black Rabbit]

Just to add my tuppeny's worth...
Having been educated in Zoology, it amazes me to hear that a few bona fide "scientists" are seriously banging on about big cats in the UK with little or NO proof.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for the myths and rumours and fairytales - adds a little romance and mystery to our countryside - pixies, nessie, beasts of bodmin etc...

Fortean zoologists and crypto-zoologists must remember that scientists, REAL scientists work with evidence and proof - not hearsay and "honestly, I DID take a roll of film, but errrr.... the Black Panther urrrmmm.... ate it", gobbledegook.

I would like nothing more than to have big cats roaming the wilds of Britain.
But there aren't any.

I would like to think that crop circles were made by landing alien space ships.
But they weren't.
Unless the aliens were called Doug and Dave.

I would love Nessie to exist.
But she doesn't.

As for genuine sightings of big cats in Britain - you just have to peruse the insects or birds fora on WAB to see that a wrong impression of size with sightings is commonplace - entirely natural, and VERY subjective.

I know for a fact also, that there are at least several communities in Britain that have great fun with the tourists / non-locals with tales and "evidence" of big cats - its a hoot to them - and long may it continue.

SOoooo....
Here's to the wonderful eccentricity of us British, and our myths and fairytales. (I'll tell you about the "tree-rabbits" of Slough one day).
Long may the big cat rumours continue.
Personally I could do with seeing more humour and fun in big-cat research in the UK, rather than straight-faced, almost dour seriousness of both researchers and reporters, buy hey ho, I can't have everything!



By the way.
The Tree Rabbits of Slough DO really exist.
I've seen them.
But then again, I am their God...
TBR

[The Black Rabbit]

Whilst I'm on the computer -

Scats are not evidence that there are big cats living wild in the UK.

My Uncle is pretty high up in Dragonfly circles (he's an Emperor.... ok.... sorry ), seriously, he is well known in the Dragonfly "world", and he used to (still does for all I know) utilise Lion dung from wildlife parks and zoos around his Dragonfly reserves, to keep away the deer, so young saplings etc... would not be nibbled.
It works, and its a regular as clockwork event - picking up the lion poo, and depositing it in quite remote areas.
Likewise, if I was a big cat keeper in such a wildlife park or zoo, I'd possibly take great delight in smuggling out a lump of poo, and dropping it accidentally on exmoor for example. Well maybe I wouldn't, but I'm not denying that that sort of thing couldn't or wouldn't or DOESN'T go on with some people with what many would call a puerile sense of humour.
Scat or poo or strands of fur etc... is not evidence.

Evidence is real video / photography (at a recogniseable location for others to agree on afterwards) of the actual beast(s), alive (not dead).

TBR

[coasty]

Interestingly there was another "big cat" sighting in our local paper over the weekend.
The area of the sighting and the description given would lead me to say OTTER... I am sure many people do see something that they are unfamiliar with. Many refer to them been much larger than domestic cat...( otter size? ) And that they move in undulating cat like manner ( otter like) Dark coloured ( Otter??? )
Also If you beleive what you read that these sightings are actually increasing. Much as the Otter is increasing in population. Given that most of the population of this country couldnt tell the difference between a horse and a donkey I am not surprised that there are more sightings....

I agree with everything Doug says ( black rabbit) Especially about the scat. Lets be honest here folks are we seriousley saying that people dont enjoy having the odd hoax,,,,

[mh68]

Originally Posted by The Black Rabbit

Whilst I'm on the computer -

Scats are not evidence that there are big cats living wild in the UK.

My Uncle is pretty high up in Dragonfly circles (he's an Emperor.... ok.... sorry ), seriously, he is well known in the Dragonfly "world", and he used to (still does for all I know) utilise Lion dung from wildlife parks and zoos around his Dragonfly reserves, to keep away the deer, so young saplings etc... would not be nibbled.
It works, and its a regular as clockwork event - picking up the lion poo, and depositing it in quite remote areas.
Likewise, if I was a big cat keeper in such a wildlife park or zoo, I'd possibly take great delight in smuggling out a lump of poo, and dropping it accidentally on exmoor for example. Well maybe I wouldn't, but I'm not denying that that sort of thing couldn't or wouldn't or DOESN'T go on with some people with what many would call a puerile sense of humour.
Scat is not evidence.

Evidence is real video / photography (at a recogniseable location for others to agree on afterwards) of the actual beast(s), alive (not dead).

TBR

Absolutely. A few things to ponder over....

How come, with a bit of research,excellent quality footage was obtained of one of the (very)rare Scottish Wildcats on Springwatch this year? same with larachmor`s shot of possibly the same animal which he posted a while back, yet, after years and years of big cat reports, often several in small areas over a short period of time, has no decent film/photographic evidence been obtained which proves their existence once and for all??
A fella I know has been visiting Nepal for the last few years in search of Snow Leopards, which are classed as being as rare as the Tiger.After a few short trips over the course of a couple of years he managed good sightings of one(not sure about pics but i`d imagine he got some, i`ve not spoken to him personally since his sightings),and that`s one of the rarest big cats in the whole world.Remote country,extremely rare animal, limited time in the area due to distance/cost, yet as well as his experiences,theyve even been filmed for tv!!
So how come, in such a densely populated island as ours,no one has managed decent film/images which cant be disputed, especially if theyre wandering the countryside in the numbers some suggest?
How come, despite the number of us wandering around photographing wildlife with decent camera gear these days,often in pretty remote areas,are the big cat pics that DO see the light of day always of such poor quality,and always taken on a mobile phone or something??
Not just wildlife photographers either - the majority of anglers these days have decent cameras for recording their catches. Theyre in the ideal position to get evidence,spending long hours in remote areas - even the remote Highland Lochs of Scotland are being explored more and more by travelling anglers so nowhere is out of reach.
What about the shooting/hunting fraternity? Plenty of people out at night either hunting legitimately or poaching, with equipment perfectly capable of dropping a Big Cat if one was encountered.Theyre obviously going to be out in areas where prey densities are quite high too You only need to look on the hunting forums when the subject is mentioned, to see that many would happily shoot a big cat to prove once and for all they exist. Yet it hasnt happened up to now...
All of our native mammal species end up as road casualties at some point due to increasing numbers of traffic on our roads, so why arent there more Big Cat road kills?Those that have been reported are always dubious...
How come there arent more (or indeed, any) verified attacks on people, with the supposed big cats being in such close proximity to humans (given that the majority of sightings are near to heavily populated areas - even in sparsely populated countries the odd local gets knacked by a big cat occasionally )?? As has been said,the attack on that young lad who was clawed was discounted as being by a big cat.I remember the original news report - he saw a black tail in the long grass and pulled it (!!) thinking it was either a neighbourhood moggie or his own cat (cant recall exactly),and the cat clawed him!!...slightly different to the account he recalls on that video link Deer Boy posted

It`s been mentioned on here before that there have been decent pics taken of big cats, but the photographer has chosen to keep these to him/herself for fear of the animal being hunted down and destroyed. Fair enough, but there are too many people out there who want their "15 minutes of fame" for this to be the case every time.So at least some would surely see the light of day??
As Doug says, there`s no guarantee that scats found in the field can be classed as genuine in a lot of cases. Same with tracks - I could make realistic plaster casts of big cat prints and go walkies along a muddy path, leaving a lovely trail for someone to find. Unlikely? maybe, but there have been people willing to go to a lot of trouble to set up big cat hoaxes for whatever reason before now.
I`m afraid there`s more evidence AGAINST their existence, than supporting it, I would love for the reverse to be true though, as i`m sure most on here would...

Mark H

[Ukwildlifeo]

I agree with a lot of the points raised. There is a tragic shortage of evidence. One of the problems is qualified scientists are scared to touch the subject as they will ruin there reputation. Personally I sure that when the dangerous animals act was brought in some big cats were released, and that they could have survived and bred. As for avoiding being found, big cats can be very secretive and if they die deep in vegetation no-one will find the remains. But there must be very few of them about

[Paul mabbott]

Looks like one of them has been caught
Chester Chronicle - And Finally

[eeyore]

It depends on what you mean by big - I know that lynx have been live trapped in the uk as have puma (eastern mountain lion), plus you also have things like the dufftown cat. I've actually been present when a lynx was caught (on a golf course i used to work on).

However i dont belive for a moment that the bigger big cats (leopards, panthers, lions, tigers etc) are at large in the uk - possibly there were some imediately after the dangerous wild animals act was brought in , but there would not have been enough to sustain a breeding population.

Though that said a mate of mine once recovered a tiger cub from a garden in brighton - but the informed thinking is that that had been smuggled in on the diepe - newhaven ferry.