Pronunciation

[RKB]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I don't think that's correct. When proper names are "Latinised" the native pronunciation is preserved as much as possible. Partly because, as in this case, there is no Latin equivalent!

Well that wouldn't be a very useful system, as what you're saying is that there is a system of pronunciation which can be completely ignored in some cases. But how are you supposed to know if a scientific name happens to be derived from a proper name unless you have prior knowledge? The whole point of the scientific naming system is that anyone anywhere with a basic knowledge of Latin pronunciation can understand (and use) the system. If you start introducing bear traps then it undermines the whole point of having it in the first place - in the case of Sedge Warbler you're requiring anyone in the World to know the standard 'Latin' pronunciations of the Scientific Naming system, then to somehow know that Schoenobaen is a German name, and then know German pronunciation as well. Not exactly 'standardised'!

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I don't think that's correct. When proper names are "Latinised" the native pronunciation is preserved as much as possible. Partly because, as in this case, there is no Latin equivalent!
Which brings us to the interesting question of 'w' ... is that post-Latin and therefore pronouced as used in the native word or is it Gothicised Latin pronounced 'v'; Romans, of course, pronounced 'v' as 'w' (or used uu/vv [=, literally, double-u; althouh that was a slightly different matter]. Sleepless nights again ...

That was my understanding of it, too. And again as far as I'm aware, we don't really know how the Romans did pronounce things anyway, and there would have been regional variations. Perhaps there was an 'emperor's Latin' though - perhaps we should speak Latin like Claudius did - could be interesting ....

Provided we write the names correctly that is the most important thing ....

[STYRBJORN]

Linnaeus must be turning in his . . . burial chamber.

[RKB]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

Provided we write the names correctly that is the most important thing ....

Not at all - if you go to a conference and a speaker on Sedge Warblers starts speaking in German, it might be a bit confusing!

[thunder]

Originally Posted by RKB

Not at all - if you go to a conference and a speaker on Sedge Warblers starts speaking in German, it might be a bit confusing!

But is Latin pronunciation universal across languages? Does a Dutchman pronounce Anthus the same way an Englishman would?

henrya

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by RKB

Not at all - if you go to a conference and a speaker on Sedge Warblers starts speaking in German, it might be a bit confusing!

If you know it is about sedge warblers then at least you'd recognise, just about, the latin name, even if spoken with a German accent. The rest might be very confusing though if you have no German!

[RKB]

Originally Posted by thunder

But is Latin pronunciation universal across languages? Does a Dutchman pronounce Anthus the same way an Englishman would?

henrya

But that's accent isn't it? A Scotsman doesn't pronounce 'river' the same way as a Cornishman, but it's still English.

[RKB]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

If you know it is about sedge warblers then at least you'd recognise, just about, the latin name, even if spoken with a German accent. The rest might be very confusing though if you have no German!

That's the whole point - scientific naming is there so that you can know it is about Sedge Warblers based on the Latin name alone. It's not whether it is spoken with a German accent but whether it is spoken in German (and not Latin). Before anyone starts, I know that it is derived from a German word! But the word 'alcove' is Spanish yet has been pinched by English and pronounced very differently, and any number of other loaned words. Words are commonly co-opted by other languages and then 'go native', being pronounced according to the adopted language rules, not the native language. Even names - think of how Einstein is pronounced in English vs its native German.

[STYRBJORN]

Originally Posted by RKB

That's the whole point - scientific naming is there so that you can know it is about Sedge Warblers based on the Latin name alone. It's not whether it is spoken with a German accent but whether it is spoken in German (and not Latin). Before anyone starts, I know that it is derived from a German word! But the word 'alcove' is Spanish yet has been pinched by English and pronounced very differently, and any number of other loaned words. Words are commonly co-opted by other languages and then 'go native', being pronounced according to the adopted language rules, not the native language. Even names - think of how Einstein is pronounced in English vs its native German.

Schadenfreude is very much the zeitgeist of 2010