Are some 'pest/nuisance species' posts inappropriate for the British Wildlife forums?

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Lets not go their again on this thread - GK said fox control - which covers a myriad of methods not just HWD, and in any case it was an example not a topic for discussion here

Please note from the smilies that it was a joke.

[STYRBJORN]

Just change the title of this forum to "General Talk about Wildlife"

Ric

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Deb London

It matters not to me where I see posts about pest species on WAB. I'm balanced enough take most sensible posts in my stride. As long as the Mods continue to remove the "Webb and Page" element from the forum, I say leave things as they are.

Look at that newspaper report again. Are there not worse things than a sensible and respectful exchange of ideas? Let's just be thankful that most of our fellow members are civilised human beings!

Unfortunately the issues involved extend beyond what can be contained within "a sensible and respectful exchange of ideas". Many of these 'problem' questions come from first time posters who are neither familiar with the subject, nor with WAB, nor even in some cases with how Internet forums work. At one level WAB forums offer 'expert' and frequently definitive advice on species identification for everything from flea beetles to seals, and from microfungi to Scotspine. Seperately there is another level where lots of 'talk' happens and much inexpert opinion is expounded. For a first timer this can be both confusing and where opinion is offered as definitive advice -misleading.

It also needs to be remembered that many of the questions posed have legal, safety and cost implications - cutting down trees being a case in point. Ill considered, ignorant and/or flipant responses presented in an authoritative manner could encourage a question poser to damage their or their neighbour's home, involve huge unneccessary costs, expose people to legal sanction etc. It's the the mismatch of authority that is the problem - stating that a 'pink butterfly' is without questin species 'x', is unlikely to have major consequences even if the ident is wrong - though on WAB it's rare that such a wrong ident would stay unchallenged. Stating that "your house will fall down if you don't cut down that oak in your neighbour's garden immediately which you are legally entitled to do" - could well have huge consequences, and certainly cause unneccessary worry to the questioner.

I'm not sure what the answer is for WAB, although I do think the use of a standard 'sticky' on relevant forums would help on the same lines that this does on the fungi forum Is my fungus edible or psychotic requests

CM

[Deb London]

I agree with what you are saying, but will a separate forum for these issues really help, or will it just confuse the first time poster even more? I suspect the latter; I've found many 'newby' posts 'in the wrong place' as it is. A separate forum might confuse issues. No amount of division and subdivision will ever make every forum member read what they are supposed to read, consider what they are writing before they post or write in the manner of a sane and rational human being.

[Earthwatcher]

As a new poster who has some experience of other forums, one of the things that attracted me here was the relatively straightforward arrangement of the categories. I suppose a debate on taxonomy is to be expected on a wildlife forum. The post on fungi shows just how a well meaning site can be abused and the response was a sensible one. I have several books on fungi and like to collect for the table occasionally but wouldn't dream of getting advice on that here.

I'd be inclined to leave "as is" on this one for many of the reasons already stated. People don't like to be nannied too much but that aside, a forum needs to be logical and easily navigable. Even if you have a separate thread for pests, some will still post on the wrong thread, creating some irritation and work for moderators.

There could be an argument for a separate thread on invasive species except that would create a debate on what and what is not invasive. Personally I'd like to see a thread on fossils but there's probably a view that long dead species have become geology: wild, yes, but not life any more.

As some have pointed out there is a constant trade off going on in conservation. Some conservation bodies kill what they regard as pests but would nonetheless have booked their tickets on the ark. I've heard that the RSPB, for example is not averse to selective "pest" control on some of its reserves. Yes, that means killing wild animals.

Every day I see my lawn dug up by grey squirrels. Sure, I regard them as a bit of a pest, but I can fill in the holes and they soon grass over. I love to see a lesser spotted woodpecker outside my window, but I was less than amused when I saw one trying to get at the blue tit chicks in their nesting box. The pretty woodpecker had suddenly become a pest in the mind of the beholder. Of course the biggest pest that wrecks every attempt at order in nature (and on forums) is us. So maybe this post too should be shunted off on in to a special thread.

If I'm looking for ways to discourage woodpeckers around nesting boxes should I post in a pest thread or one on birds? I'd go for birds.

[Deb London]

Sensible post, EW.

You are so lucky to have that problem, I cannot tell you!

[STYRBJORN]

Originally Posted by Earthwatcher

.

Modest koff

Ric

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Earthwatcher

Personally I'd like to see a thread on fossils but there's probably a view that long dead species have become geology: wild, yes, but not life any more.

I don't think there would be any principled objection from 'the management' to having a geology forum - there's already the non wildlife astronomy forum - however although the suggestion has arisen before, I don't think there's been enough active voices to push the idea forward. Probably requires someone with some definite expertise to come forward to offer to moderate, or at least commit to answering queries and contribute Gallery images.

CM

[Gatekeeper]

Originally Posted by Earthwatcher

If I'm looking for ways to discourage woodpeckers around nesting boxes should I post in a pest thread or one on birds? I'd go for birds.

I think that most people, including yourself, would regard this as a pretty extreme 'pest' scenario; as would, for example, "Help, how can I stop ospreys dropping fish on my lawn?".

No, being sensible, the type of thread that I'm mainly referring to is something along the lines of, "Help, my house is over-run with mice/rats/flies/spiders/ants/bed-bugs/fleas/etc!". It would be appropriate to contact a pest-control agency for advice on any of these problems (potentially leading to the destruction of the 'pest'), but you would not get a great deal of advice on Lesser-spotted Woodpeckers, or Ospreys dropping fish.

The difference with WAB is that the poster of a 'pest' question may well find out that their would-be pest is quite harmless, ie "Don't worry it's only an Ichneumon Wasp. How many times a year will someone post "Help, my house is over-run with mice/rats/flies/spiders/ants/bed-bugs/fleas/etc!". There are no doubt many posts to be found in the WAB archives, offering sensible, environmentally sound advice on all manner of 'pest' issues, but is a first time poster likely to find them? Probably not, so the question is asked again and again, and each time the answer can be very different. Sometimes the poster may go with the first reply they get, and it's just pot-luck if the advice is the most appropriate; as was pointed out regarding the 'Sycamore' thread, this could lead to disaster.

So, I still think it makes sense to have all the advice relating to a problem, readily available in one place. It's better for the poster, the responder, and potentially even for the 'pest'.

[artdemole]

Not so much geology as this would need a lot of work.Fossils are a different matter as it contains Life as it was and would be of interest.It does show how Wildlife evolved into what we on WAB enjoy today.....