Animal Intelligence 2

[Cotham Marble]

There's been a long running discussion about intelligence in non human animals: Intellegent animals

A New Scientist article - currently accesible without a subscription - which covers some related ground is available here: Size isn't everything: The big brain myth - 28 July 2010 - New Scientist

The content seems different enough to warrant a new thread.

CM

[STYRBJORN]

Interesting article CM. Thanks for putting it up. I'm going to print it off to read properly, as I can't get along with reading on screen.

Meantime, I have a couple of off-the-cuff remarks. The researcher has consistently under stated the body mass of the other great apes; an adult male Pan chimpanzee weighs around 150+kg with a brain volume C1000cc, an adult male human 70kg/1400cc. Our brains are much larger in proportion than those of our closest relative. It seems reasonable in the absence of experimental data to assume that cell sizes are similar, so we have many more neurons and ganglia.

I was reading about the "EQ" a few years ago. This is the "Encephalisation Quotient", an attempt to express brain volume / body mass as a single figure. The attempt ran into difficulty, and it was realised that arboreal animals have disproportionately large brains when compared with terrestrial animals. Dissection showed that the enlarged area was cognate with the area of the human brain used for spatial mapping. Obvious with hind sight, as usual. An animal living in a three-dimensional world needs much more complex mapping abilities than a flatlander.

I think that both these points tell against the theme, but I thoroughly approve the idea that human intelligence is at the far end of an exponential curve with no discontinuity separating us from other animals. Darwin established that in 1859 but altogether too many people have yet to realise it.

I can feel a rant coming on, so I'll sign off.

Ric

[animartco]

Hi Ric and Cotham Marble. Interesting article! Salient points that were new to me. Glia to Neuron ratio, suggesting that glia have a large role in intelligence, and the fact that Einsteins brain had a higher ratio of glia! Comparison in the brain weights of rodents being down to the fact that they have larger neurons than primates. And of course the incredible abilities of insects, which I think I mentioned in the other thread. Was I making the point that with computers getting so much smaller and doing the same job why should we be surprised at insects being as clever as us? It has taken computers time to evolve into microcomputers and insects have had longer to evolve than we have.
Also remember that insects used to be a lt larger than they are now. Didn't there used to be enormous dragonflies in the cretaceous? perhaps as brains get more efficient the size of the animal is reduced? After all most animals are the size they are in order to provide enough sugar to keep their brains functioning.

[John_M]

Originally Posted by STYRBJORN

...an adult male Pan chimpanzee weighs around 150+kg...
Ric

They must have very big chimps where you come from! An adult male Pan troglodytes weighs somewhere in the region of 50 - 60Kg, Pan paniscus less.

[STYRBJORN]

Originally Posted by John_M

They must have very big chimps where you come from! An adult male Pan troglodytes weighs somewhere in the region of 50 - 60Kg, Pan paniscus less.

Whoops! I stand corrected. Got pounds and kg mixed up. I'll stand in the naughty corner.

Ric

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[Amoeba]

Can't read the article, what does it say?

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Amoeba

Can't read the article, what does it say?

There was a time limit on full public accessibility, as the article is copyright protected it would not be appropriate to post it in full here, and it is too complex to easily summarise. Your local library may carry hard copies of NS or have an online subscription available on their computers.

There are many specialist articles that are of interest to WAB members and 'subscription only' is part of the package of being informed, to not quote or refer to anything not publicly available would be very limiting. Though of course it is frustrating if you don't have access.

CM