Why feed wild life?

[Campestre]

Just popped in to reply to this thread.


I don’t agree with long term feeding. If I where to put out constant food for the birds I will be probably be feeding 95%+ common bird species. The majority of which are doing well in my immediate countryside.

If I where to agree to start feeding them year round seed, I will then be adding to the demand for cereal crops etc. I believe the USA uses 500,000 tons a year for bird seed, so who knows what the total is for other countries. Surely this adds existing pressure to the land, possibly more hedgerows, woods, flower rich meadows etc being destroyed for crops and chuck in a few pesticides and herbicides. Also add in the Carbon footprint of transporting all this bird seed around…I’m still not convinced we are doing the right thing here.

What about the very real fret of transmittable diseases, surely we are helping to increase the spread of these diseases from these frequented feeding station.

There is still a lot more research needed to be done before we are certain we are helping these birds long term. There is proof we have altered the behaviour etc of the Blackcap in the UK, this is believed to a positive move??

[davecatt]

Hi all
First off: No criticism intended. Each to their own way. ( as in Kants Categorical Imperative )

Being an old fashioned type I cant come to terms with the idea of buying something you don't really need.

For the birds, nut and seed feeders can easily be made out of wire mesh. Bird nest boxes and Hedgehog shelters can be made easily and cheaply, either by using scrap wood or offcuts from a local timber merchant or anybody you know who may work with wood.

I would prefer to let nature provide where possible. A pile of hedge clippings or a good old fashioned compost heap (left undisturbed through autumn and winter) would provide shelter for the hedgehogs. Providing natural food for the birds by planting shrubs and other suitable vegetation would not only ensure a food source, but with a bit of careful planning, provide shelter and protection.

Think about it. If the food supply is scattered over a wide area rather than concentrated around one or two feeding stations then there wont be a large flock in one small area to attract cats or sparrow hawks. Also, if you have plenty shrubbery, the birds will have somewhere to hide from predators.

Plan your garden properly and you will only need to feed in extreme weather conditions,and even then most of your food waste could be used.

These options may not be possible or practical for some,but I do feel that too often people go for the easy option of buying things they could easily provide themselves.

Laziness or just victims of consumerism?

[Susie]

I don't think it is laziness or consumerism, personally, more a desire to be entertained. I grow as many plants as possible that will provide either insects, seeds or berries but there is a limit to what my garden can produce. I love to see lots of birds, that is purely selfish on my part, and so I put out lots of food and achieve my aim. I could spend my winter months watching DVDs but I would rather spend the money on sunflower hearts and look out of the window instead and feel like I have done a good thing, regardless of whether on balance I actually have or not.

[posie]

..I buy a half hundredweight (25 kilo) sack of mixed wild-bird seed from my horse and rabbit food supplier, they deliver it all. The seed works out ever so much cheaper that way. It works out less than 30p per kilo...I think this is cheep

Back on thread now...I know some of the seed germinates and grows, I might sow a couple of acres next spring, see what happens...might put in some budgie seed and canary seed as well...Won't do parrot seed again though 'cos the hemp plants look exactly like cannabis plants. I made some hemp cakes out of the last lot, I was as high as a Red kite..Posie

[davecatt]

Originally Posted by Susie

I don't think it is laziness or consumerism, personally, more a desire to be entertained. I grow as many plants as possible that will provide either insects, seeds or berries but there is a limit to what my garden can produce. I love to see lots of birds, that is purely selfish on my part, and so I put out lots of food and achieve my aim. I could spend my winter months watching DVDs but I would rather spend the money on sunflower hearts and look out of the window instead and feel like I have done a good thing, regardless of whether on balance I actually have or not.

Susie I do understand all this: But the "bee in my bonnet" is all about the telly thing. Instant entertainment.

Nature is an on going thing. We influence it, for better or worse, in our own way, just recognise that when you are dealing with wild creatures.

I do realise empathy for nature is not so easy for a generation who has been brought up,and found their attraction to, "Natural History" Via third party media rather than first hand experience.

But why not just give a bit more thought to the actual needs,not just now but in the future too, of the creatures that are becoming reliant on your garden purely for your present entertainment?
Dave

[davecatt]

Originally Posted by posie

..I buy a half hundredweight (25 kilo) sack of mixed wild-bird seed from my horse and rabbit food supplier, they deliver it all. The seed works out ever so much cheaper that way. It works out less than 30p per kilo...I think this is cheep

Back on thread now...I know some of the seed germinates and grows, I might sow a couple of acres next spring, see what happens...might put in some budgie seed and canary seed as well...Won't do parrot seed again though 'cos the hemp plants look exactly like cannabis plants. I made some hemp cakes out of the last lot, I was as high as a Red kite..Posie

POSIE watcha like?

[whaleomeloette]

Originally Posted by davecatt

I have always believed that it is wrong to make wild animals dependent on us for food. Food should only be provided in extreme weather conditions.

So my question is: Why do you feed hedgehogs,birds etc at this time of year when food is abundant for them? Do you really care about the wild creatures around us or do you care more about the spectacle of seeing them in the comfort of your own back yard?

Surely, artificial food mixes only train them away from their instinct to seek out their natural food? You wont always be there to care for them.

Dave

can no one do anything right in your book dave? my first experience here was you having a fit over my 3 broken bird eggs, now its about people helping wild life and feeding it.
i agree that they shouldnt fed all the time and i discourage people from doing this nas its deeply irrisponsible and makes said wild life dependant on once food source, however i do feel the need to sporadically put food out, i dont have a back yard nor do i wait to see the foxes birds etc come for the food so its not for my viewing pleasure or a feel good factor like sticking a pound in a chairty box and thinking youre great, but im sure they appriciate it. especially when they have cubs. if 1 night a week 1 fox family have to spend a little less engery hunting then thats fine by me,

[davecatt]

Originally Posted by Campestre

Just popped in to reply to this thread.


I don’t agree with long term feeding. If I where to put out constant food for the birds I will be probably be feeding 95%+ common bird species. The majority of which are doing well in my immediate countryside.

If I where to agree to start feeding them year round seed, I will then be adding to the demand for cereal crops etc. I believe the USA uses 500,000 tons a year for bird seed, so who knows what the total is for other countries. Surely this adds existing pressure to the land, possibly more hedgerows, woods, flower rich meadows etc being destroyed for crops and chuck in a few pesticides and herbicides. Also add in the Carbon footprint of transporting all this bird seed around…I’m still not convinced we are doing the right thing here.

What about the very real fret of transmittable diseases, surely we are helping to increase the spread of these diseases from these frequented feeding station.

There is still a lot more research needed to be done before we are certain we are helping these birds long term. There is proof we have altered the behaviour etc of the Blackcap in the UK, this is believed to a positive move??

1.Not strictly accurate: Farmers are business men after all and will go for the most profitable crop. There is no incentive, therfore no profit, to put more land to arable use. Whereas there are incentives to preserve and even reinstate endangered habitats.

2. Good point.If you observe the feeding behaviour of birds you would see that they are very defensive of their food source and keep to a territory. A serious outbreak of any infection that affects population would be immediately obvious to any caring bird feeder. A report to the BTO would be useful,as would a phone call to the local press asking them to ask local people if they have noticed a decline.

I suspect that any health problems through feeding would be of a man made origin. But the spread of disease can be localised if detected early enough.

Again it comes down to empathy with the wild creatures you attract for your own entertainment.

Dave

[Susie]

Originally Posted by davecatt

Susie I do understand all this: But the "bee in my bonnet" is all about the telly thing. Instant entertainment.

Nature is an on going thing. We influence it, for better or worse, in our own way, just recognise that when you are dealing with wild creatures.

I do realise empathy for nature is not so easy for a generation who has been brought up,and found their attraction to, "Natural History" Via third party media rather than first hand experience.

But why not just give a bit more thought to the actual needs,not just now but in the future too, of the creatures that are becoming reliant on your garden purely for your present entertainment?
Dave

Hi Dave,

We are part of nature, not separate from it. As far as I am concerned I am just as much wildlife as the blackbird in my garden but I understand the distinction in the way you mean it.

Not quite sure what you mean by giving more thoughts to the actual needs now. I do everything I can to ensure that in my little patch there is as much food for "wildlife", within reason, as it can provide. The majority of the birds which pass through my garden do precisely that - pass through. The winter migrants will not be dependent on my garden long term as they will move on as soon as weather conditions allow.

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by davecatt

I have always believed that it is wrong to make wild animals dependent on us for food. Food should only be provided in extreme weather conditions. So my question is: Why do you feed hedgehogs,birds etc at this time of year when food is abundant for them? Do you really care about the wild creatures around us or do you care more about the spectacle of seeing them in the comfort of your own back yard? Surely, artificial food mixes only train them away from their instinct to seek out their natural food? You wont always be there to care for them. Dave

The propositions – “making animals dependant” and “artificial food mixes train animal away from natural food” do not match either the question proposition “food is abundant at this time of year” or the question base “what do ‘you’ care about”.

It is the nature of animals to respond to their environment, in this sense the interaction between wild animals and humans is no different from the interaction between one wild species and another. Robin’s and Blackbirds have no doubt been following excavating mammals for millennia before transferring that behaviour to the digging activity of human gardeners; the Robin perched on the spade handle is for us a cutesie image, but it reasonable to assume that Robins were perching behind wild boar as they grubbed up the ground long before our ancestors had even developed the digging stick. The difference for us is, that unlike the wild boar we can project forward the consequences of our actions, but that doesn’t change how the Robin sees us. Humans putting out food specifically for animals will not impair those animal’s evolutionary gained instincts – anymore than wild boar making grubs and worms available to Robins impaired the Robin as a species in terms of its survivability. Of course there are issues about the impairment of learned techniques but this applies largely to very low number populations and to species where ‘cultural’ behaviour is important – essentially social mammals although it may apply to some birds as well.

The notion of artificial food as compared to ‘natural food’ is something that would need very specific definition to have any useful meaning. Most wild animals exist at the limits of their capacity – essentially the available nutrition will fuel optimal breeding. Unless the available food provides optimal nutrition, then over several breeding cycles reproduction will be below the optimum, and individuals that make the best nutritional choices – whatever combination of human provided and wild food is best for a given species, will produce higher numbers of offspring, who will inherit optimal feeding behaviours.

The notion of “extreme weather conditions” is also problematic, extreme for which species ? This year’s weather is particularly useful in outlining some of the problems. The first six months have in most parts of the UK, been the driest since 1964, this will have had a significant effect on invertebrate numbers on which whole food chains rely. And for predator species that rely on soil dwelling prey, worms, slugs etc, the dry weather has forced those prey species to unobtainable depths for prolonged periods. Yet few people would describe the weather of th last six months as being sustainedly extreme.

IMO a far more relevant concern about feeding wildlife is that raised by Campestre

If I where to agree to start feeding them year round seed, I will then be adding to the demand for cereal crops etc. I believe the USA uses 500,000 tons a year for bird seed, so who knows what the total is for other countries. Surely this adds existing pressure to the land, possibly more hedgerows, woods, flower rich meadows etc being destroyed for crops and chuck in a few pesticides and herbicides. Also add in the Carbon footprint of transporting all this bird seed around…I’m still not convinced we are doing the right thing here.

This is certainly an issue that needs to be addresses. EU figures show the UK importing 50,000 tonnes of peanuts as bird feed per annum which in calorific terms would seem to far exceed the needs of the known populations of likely peanut consuming species, suggesting much of this import is being wasted or being consumed by rodents. However there are ecological benefits from encouraging predator species into gardens by the provision of some additional nutrition – although not attractive as a sole source, there are pest species on which birds and hedgehogs will feed and this removal of pest species is an ecological plus if it avoids the use other controls, avoids the cost of plant replacement or reduces crop loss. So feeding is not always a net expenditure although we do need to get much smarter about how feed is used, what it consists of and where it is sourced.

CM