Foxes imported For hunting

[FoxtonWildlifeRescue]

During earlier discussions on a recently 'vanished' thread, I mentioned the fact that foxes were imported to England from the continent and scandinavia in order to provide more sport by way of hunting. The fox population of today is artificially swollen as a result of this.

I was quite shocked to see that this was not common knowledge, so anybody daft enough to believe the one and only pro fox hunting argument - that it is solely about pest control needs to know this.

To quote from the RSPCA's "The Facts About Fox Hunting"

"With the sport's continuation under threat for lack of quarry, it was vital to increase the fox population. Aniimals were imported from the continent and Leadenhall Market became a busy centre for fox trading.

The imported foxes were called bagmen and either released in hunt areas or kept in hunt kennels to supply demand as necessary."

[salukiwhippet]

So we're constantly being told that foxes regulate their own numbers (jolly decent of them!), but foxes imported over a hundred years ago still have an effect on the number of foxes present in the UK today? Surely they would have managed to regulate their own numbers downward after a century?

The argument that hunting is for pest control is a recent one, and no-one would argue that (mounted) hunting at that time was not mainly about sport.

James

[Simples]

I don't think anybody today seriously believes the 'pest control' argument. If the Tories get in, this blood 'sport' will become legal again and all the hooray-henry types will be bloodying their offspring in the name of entertainment.

[FoxtonWildlifeRescue]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

So we're constantly being told that foxes regulate their own numbers (jolly decent of them!), but foxes imported over a hundred years ago still have an effect on the number of foxes present in the UK today? Surely they would have managed to regulate their own numbers downward after a century?

The argument that hunting is for pest control is a recent one, and no-one would argue that (mounted) hunting at that time was not mainly about sport.

James

They regulate their numbers to a critical point - a saturation point.

Without import their numbers would be far fewer which was the point of import in the first place.

From your username I can see you are a hunter. If you are honest, you do it for fun, no? Something i will never understand.

[salukiwhippet]

And yet many, many people seem to believe the stereotypes put about by the antis! Remarkable.

James

[salukiwhippet]

How many foxes were imported? Given that a wild fox does well to live for 5 years, at least 20 generations would have gone by since. Are you honestly saying that in spite of all the other changes in habitat - urbanisation, changes in farming practice, the advent of the motor car etc, I would guess that the imports would have to number millions for there to be any effect on the population a century down the line.

And, no, I'm not a 'hunter' - that's either a make of wellington or a type of horse, and I am neither!!

Yes, I do follow the hunt, perhaps half a dozen times a year, and yes, I enjoy it. However, do you think the fox cares whether the huntsman is having the time of his life or is wracked with self-loathing? Seems unlikely.

Are fellpacks OK with you?

James

[RKB]

I think we need more info on this before we can accept your statement, namely "The fox population of today is artificially swollen as a result of this."

We'd need to know during what period were they imported, how many animals were imported from abroad (as opposed to shipped down from elsewhere in England), how many are estimated to have survived to breed, and what proportion of total fox numbers at the time did these represent.

If they were imported for hunting, it suggests that not many could have survived to swell the population. Imported animals would, presumably, have been expensive, and not allowed to wander off. And if it happened over a 50 year period 200 years ago, then it's unlikely to have much relevance today as native foxes would have had plenty of time to infill. Plenty of British foxes were also bagged up and shipped around to fulfill demand too, so not all foxes at markets would have had to be imported.

Incidently, it's also little known that a large proportion of the Red Squirrel population is from imported stock, as they nearly went extinct during the late 18th Century.

[FoxtonWildlifeRescue]

Originally Posted by RKB

I think we need more info on this before we can accept your statement, namely "The fox population of today is artificially swollen as a result of this."

We'd need to know during what period were they imported, how many animals were imported from abroad (as opposed to shipped down from elsewhere in England), how many are estimated to have survived to breed, and what proportion of total fox numbers at the time did these represent.

If they were imported for hunting, it suggests that not many could have survived to swell the population. Imported animals would, presumably, have been expensive, and not allowed to wander off. And if it happened over a 50 year period 200 years ago, then it's unlikely to have much relevance today as native foxes would have had plenty of time to infill. Plenty of British foxes were also bagged up and shipped around to fulfill demand too, so not all foxes at markets would have had to be imported.

Incidently, it's also little known that a large proportion of the Red Squirrel population is from imported stock, as they nearly went extinct during the late 18th Century.

You make my point for me when you say that foxes have been bagged up and exported too. Look at the red fox population of Australia or USA where they are not native but have been solely imported.

Obviously, I don't have figures for numbers imported or whether it was tuesday or a friday, or whether it was raining or not. I suppose you can just take a look at the success rates of other imported animals such as grey squirrels, rabbits, muntjac etc, see how their numbers have thrived and make an educated guess.

I do know that red foxes were known to be scarce before they were imported and abundant now.

As for your comment about keeping them captive, I believe that they were released. Otherwise there would be no sport.

[FoxtonWildlifeRescue]

Originally Posted by salukiwhippet

Are fellpacks OK with you?

James

No!!

[danthekeeper]

If the fox population is now artificially swollen then surely culling fox can only be good for them as it will lower the population to a proper level