So, can animals experience or display emotions?

[Garden Carpet]

Some time ago I looked after my sister's dogs.. with mine six in total. Her senior bitch and mine got on ok unless one stepped on the others toes so to speak and then all hell let loose (I have had to pick them up by their tails to stop fights, not an action I would normally advocate). However, if mine, or any of the others was unwell, this bitch would 'nurse' them until they were well again.

I think it is incredibly conceited of humans to think they are the only creatures capapable of love, hatred, anger, fear and joy. All of these emotions are displayed by dogs for sure. Any dog owner will tell you his dog 'smiles' with pleasure at times. A dog can also display symptoms of depression.

jaki.. twizzle and gizmo!

[stigofthedump]

Hi again wizzo. Interesting event, which led me to start digging around on the net. Did a search using ' compassion chimps' and was led to the conclusion that no they don't feel compassion, then tried 'do animals feel compassion' and it seems the research is with your side of the debate with elephants. I may yet be having humble pie for dinner, will do a bit more digging around, just to see how big a portion I may have to eat! Have a look yourself see what you come up with.


Anyway starving meself all day so I might as least enjoy me suppa


Vince.

[pressld2]

So far all the discussion seems to have been around mammals (with a small nod to birds) but the original question was can animals experience or display emotions?

In my view, our emotional responses are just like our bipedalism, stereo vision, opposable thumb, etc., in that they evolved over millions of years. Therefore those animals most closely related to us - the great apes - undoubtedly do experience emotions very similar to, but probably not exactly the same as, our own. And pretty much the full range of emotions too, including love, anger, jealousy and grief. But the further away you get from humanity in a genetic sense the less likely you are to find emotions similar to our own. This does not meant that our distant relations in the animal kingdom don't have any emotions, just that they are not necessarily ones we would recognise.

It's also worth considering which emotions evolved when. From a purely survival point of view, fear is the most useful and almost certainly evolved first. From behaviour alone it would appear to be felt by the vast majority of multicelled organisms that possess a central nervous system with which to do the feeling. This means insects, arachnids, fish, amphibians, reptiles, birds and mammals. Whether an ant feels fear in the same way as an orang-utan is doubtful but they both experience something when threatened.

It is likely that love, at least in the form of parental and filial love, evolved next, and you can find examples of behaviour which looks like love in all the groups mentioned above. However you can also find example species in all those groups, with the possible exception of mammals, which do not display even parental love. Mammals, by definition, need to be nurtured with their mother's milk but there are also examples of mammalian parents eating their own young.

Other emotions are much trickier. When lions take over a pride and kill the cubs of the males they have displaced do they do it with hate in their hearts or is it just blind instinct and they feel nothing? I have no idea!

Finally, no animal is "more evolved" than any other. A nematode worm alive today is the product of three and a half billion years of evolution just as we are. I doubt it knows anything at all of love, anger, jealousy or hate. But it may, through all those aeons, have evolved emotions of its own that we know nothing about.

Dave P.

[wizzo]

Hi agaian Vince, I will do that. Marvellous thing the internet is, at tmes. Hi to you as well Dave. Some interesting comments there mate. This subject goes much deeper than I ever imagined it would. It has certainly made me think a lot, about my earlier statements. I'm still pretty well convinced that my dogs show very complex, human like emotions. Maybe because we are so close to our domestic animals, that some of our emotions have rubbed off. I don't know. Interesting debate though Dave - none the less. Wizzo

[wizzo]

Hi Jaki, Twizzle and Gizmo! Nice to meet you all!

I think I'm pretty much in your camp on this one. I hadn't even considered depression, which again, I've seen in the eyes of previously owned dogs. Can I ask, are twizzle and gizmo pets? Wizzo

[Garden Carpet]

Originally Posted by wizzo

Can I ask, are twizzle and gizmo pets? Wizzo

They certainly are... both dogs.. one is a JR cross.. and the other a pedigree Chihuahua... both rescued... one from the needle as she had been in a shelter too long... and the other from starvation!! When they bought him he must have cost a pretty penny but the b******s let him starve!!

What a change in the seven years I have had him... no depression... a happy dog if not a healthy one

Jaki

[loripo]

Have a look at the link on Garden Carpet's thread 'Leopard seal feeds penguins to cameraman!'
What do you think is going on in the seal's mind?

(PS Are your dogs in the Six Dog Sofa photo? - the one's that will be doing the shopping)

[Garden Carpet]

Originally Posted by loripo

Have a look at the link on Garden Carpet's thread 'Leopard seal feeds penguins to cameraman!'
What do you think is going on in the seal's mind?

(PS Are your dogs in the Six Dog Sofa photo? - the one's that will be doing the shopping)

cripes.. i had forgotten that photo.. where is it on WAB.. yes they are... the chi and the jr.

jaki

[stigofthedump]

Wizzo, yes the Internet is a great resource, at times! You are right the subject does indeed go deep. I too have been trawling, now through a newfound interest, many differing views and research findings. Great thread!
Dave, the lion issue came to mind with me yesterday. Interesting as well that the female’s go on to mate with the same males that have killed their cubs with no real malice or sense of retribution/revenge coming to the fore.
Maybe its that human’s tend to associate emotion with what we expect emotion to be.
Anyway like I’ve said Wizzo, great thread.


Vince

[Fritillary]

<<Science has taught me that this would be anthropocentric thinking,>>

I wonder if saying animals do not present emotions is a variation of anthropocentric thinking

I remember in the 70's scientists said animals were like machines, only moved by instincts. As a child of 70's watching and interacting with animals I was sure this was completely wrong... now scientists know that animals have more complex thinking and emotions even similar intelligence (in case of dogs) of 4 years old children.

For me humans that did not want to give any credit of animal intelligence or emotions is a way of anthropocentric thinking because they put human species first, as the most perfect species of the creation... we can see the origin in Darwins time, where it was hard to imagine a connexion with "inferior" species, which horrorised to lots of people.

However it is difficult being completely objective referring the potential of animal thinking and emotions. We are also animals so bias are easy to do.