Will you come on holiday next year to Pembrokeshire?

[nightshade]

I think that Badger culls (killing) are totally wrong and have written many letters and signed petitions but a lack of tourists could well swing government opinion the other way. I wonder what the difference in cost is between mass killing Badgers and innoculating cattle as they do in the EEC

[Digit]

Sometimes Squeak my logical approach to life offends, so please note that is never my intent, but I would ask you, as I do of others who make the same claim this.
Do you use leather, animal glues, eat jellys or pastills, do you spray Green Fly, kill Mice or Rats etc?
The reason I ask is because the majority of us are not logical, we tend to be selective.
A different forum that eeyore and I attend recently had a debate and I was very surprised to find how many people would not want Bats around.
We are not a logical species!
An example is Badger vaccination, due to the number of infected animals vaccination is estimated to take 12 yrs to remove the disease from Badgers, so if our 'do nothing' government had taken action earlier we would have had no need for any cull and many cattle would not have been slaughtered.

Roy.

[Digit]

I return again to Badger welfare Nightshade, would innoculating cattle eradicate BTB from within the Badgers?

Cattle vaccine | Features | Farmers Guardian

Roy.

[nightshade]

Simplisticly it is Bovine TB, they have tried killing Badgers for years (for reasons not scientifically proven) so why not give the innoculation a try this will take time but at least it will be an even break for our largest mammal
I have no further argument it is just the way I feel about the situation

[Digit]

If you mean to cattle Nightshade because it would be illegal to do so.
Granted that seems rather daft, but then I have come to expect little else from politicians.

Roy.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by nightshade

Simplisticly it is Bovine TB, they have tried killing Badgers for years (for reasons not scientifically proven) so why not give the innoculation a try this will take time but at least it will be an even break for our largest mammal
I have no further argument it is just the way I feel about the situation

i agree that inoculation is the answer but it is the badgers we should inoculate first - if the NFU /WAG etc are correct about the badgers being the main vector then this will solve the problem - if they are not it wont but it will still remove any logical reason to cull them

[Digit]

The problem with that eeyore is, as I understand it, vaccination will have no effect on those animals already infected. Also apparently Badgers can live with the disease for many years so that cubs are now being born already infected.
From this I guess that DEFRA would prefer to reduce the population prior to any vacination programme.
Somewhere on the net I read that a vaccination programme would need 12 yrs to be effective, and as one vector can infect numerous cattle the compensation costs would continue to rise.
And please forgive me for being a cynic, but I suspect that ministers are only now moving on the subject because of the rising costs, not Badger welfare!
Neither I nor the local farmers will in a hurry forget DEFRA's ineptitude during the F and M outbreak, an outbreak that Holland and France had under control in a matter of weeks!

Roy.

[stripee]

Originally Posted by Digit

DEFRA's comment was made some years ago stripee, I suspect that as the compensation figures have risen their view will have changed!

Roy.

Roy I don't want to go on and on and on about this but currently there is a badger vaccination pilot scheme being set up in several parts of western England.Information for farmers
This page will give you links to the Badger Vaccine Deployment Project which is due to start now (as in September 2009) with signing up farmers and vaccinating badgers in summer 2010.

You may prefer the idea of culling, but what is the point of killing something if it doesn't work, or the advantage is tiny or unproven (ie it could be the other measures working?) Tony Edwards of the Farmers Union of Wales has said that farmers have to accept that cattle movements are the main problem. Christianne Glossop herself said last week that the disease is appearing in new places where the badgers are known to be uninfected. Badgers may be protected in theory, but in practice often they do not have such a good time.
If you want to come along to Cardigan (outside Guildhall I expect) or any of the other main towns in Pembrokeshire or Carmarthen on Sat 17 Oct then there will be stalls with people from PAC who can discuss with you these points.

[Digit]

No point in killing anything under those circumstances stripee, but that view starts from the assumption that it wouldn't work.

Roy.

[squeek]

Originally Posted by Digit

Sometimes Squeak my logical approach to life offends, so please note that is never my intent, but I would ask you, as I do of others who make the same claim this.
Do you use leather, animal glues, eat jellys or pastills, do you spray Green Fly, kill Mice or Rats etc?
The reason I ask is because the majority of us are not logical, we tend to be selective.
A different forum that eeyore and I attend recently had a debate and I was very surprised to find how many people would not want Bats around.
We are not a logical species!
An example is Badger vaccination, due to the number of infected animals vaccination is estimated to take 12 yrs to remove the disease from Badgers, so if our 'do nothing' government had taken action earlier we would have had no need for any cull and many cattle would not have been slaughtered.

Roy.

hi Roy. i dont buy leather fur or skin, i dont often buy glue, but will look at ingredients now on. No to jellies or pastills and any food or sweets including chocolate that contain animal or dairy, my hair products and soap is animal free also some household products, i do look into most things i buy checking ingredients, sometimes its difficult to find animal free stuff. dont use green fly spray. dont kill any animal mice or rats.
i have no problem with Bats, they fascinate me.
im all for treating animals, vaccinating them but not for killing.

a question i have... is it 100% proved that badgers are the cause of TB in cattle ? i did hear a while back it wasnt proved and wondered if that answer has now changed.