Police Dogs

[SparklySarah]

Originally Posted by A-daisy-a-day

I certainly wouldn't want to be a police dog handler if I was in his shoes, the more I've thought of the case the sorrier I feel for the man, not of course thinking it's excusable, definitely not, but if the publicity helps get the message through and possible save other dogs from the same fate, well at least some good has come of it, I don't think any good will come of prosecuting the handler, I feel his lesson will have been well learned and he will have to live with it, as a dog lover and owner, I think this would be punishment enough.

I agree. The mantal affects are often more efective than physical punishment. This is gonna be with him for life and prosecuting him will be nothing compared to the memories he is going to have to live with and bear. This is gonna be really hard for him without a punishment let alone with.

[Pippa]

I have always had dogs and you don't leave them in cars when there is any chance of the heat getting to them period.As a dog lover,i have always known that.Clearly there was no air conditioning on/working, or the dogs would be ok but i wouldn't even take that chance.

5/10 minutes is all it takes and this is again a huge message being sent out to all dog owners.Don't do it.Have you ever sat in a car yourself for 10 minutes in full heat ?Of Course you haven't............Try it just once and you will know how much worse it is for any animal. As an experienced dog handler he should have known this and my heart goes out to him, because he has to live with his mistake and i don't doubt he is suffering.

However,if he did leave his dogs, regardless of the reason,he really has to pay the price as i hope everyone would do.He isn't the first and he wont be the last.

Every year people do this and they really need to be held accountable.

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by BloomingMarvellous

Hopefully this incident will prevent the loss of Human life.

How

[poohbear]

If he doesn't resign or get chucked out he will be back in his job lecturing us on how to behave responsibly.
If guilty of this I'm not particularly bothered how he feels about it....it was an inexcusable act of stupidity not befitting the job.

[BloomingMarvellous]

Originally Posted by charlieb

How

Many Children have died the same way these Dogs have died. If this high profile news of this terrible incident ( accident ) prevents similar human tragedies, then maybe that is a lesson well worth learning.

[GTH]

Originally Posted by poohbear

If he doesn't resign or get chucked out he will be back in his job lecturing us on how to behave responsibly.
If guilty of this I'm not particularly bothered how he feels about it....it was an inexcusable act of stupidity not befitting the job.

I cannot agree more.

It cannot again be one law for them and one for us ?

If it was a member of the pulblic, then by now they would be arrested on suspicion of animal cruelty or neglect,.....and as a generalisation, "mistakes" by the police go unpunished (and there have been many, including fatal)...while "there`s no such thing as a mistake" by a member of the public.....I wonder why ? We are constantly told that ignorance is not an excuse !!!

Time for a change.....and especially where innocent animals are concerned !!

That`s me off of my soap box !!

[larachmor]

Before this thread runs any further - let's just pause and take breath.
First of all, nobody in the public at large yet knows the facts, as the matter is still under investigation. That somebody HAS slipped up there seems no doubt - but please save this level of hatred until wilful neglect has been established.
And if the facts are such that a prosecution is merited, then fine. But if a prosecution is not deemed warranted, then that decision will have been that of the Crown Prosecution Service - not the police!

[poohbear]

Airplane crashes can take days,weeks, even months to investigate.Two dead dogs in an overheated vehicle outside police headquarters shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to apportion blame...why the delay?? As for not knowing the facts...a human being locked two dogs in a vehicle...the person with the vehicle keys is guilty of the offence...period.

There is no level of hatred...I just want to know what the hell the guy was thinking making such a horrendous mistake.I'm not interested in a prosecution...a fine doesn't bring the dogs back...neither would an apology...the man should be banned from working with animals....ever.

[Squirrelx]

What puzzles me is what he was doing with two dogs as I was always under the impression it was a one-to-one situation i.e. one handler, one dog.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by poohbear

Airplane crashes can take days,weeks, even months to investigate.Two dead dogs in an overheated vehicle outside police headquarters shouldn't take more than a couple of hours to apportion blame...why the delay?? As for not knowing the facts...a human being locked two dogs in a vehicle...the person with the vehicle keys is guilty of the offence...period.

There is no level of hatred...I just want to know what the hell the guy was thinking making such a horrendous mistake.I'm not interested in a prosecution...a fine doesn't bring the dogs back...neither would an apology...the man should be banned from working with animals....ever.

Firstly, it's the RSPCA doing the investigation, not the Police, presumably to counter those people who wouldn't believe that the police could investigate the matter fairly. Perhaps any concern regarding any perceived delay should be directed at them.

Secondly, how do you know exactly what investigating is being done or not? Just because the media aren't spoon-feeding us with a blow by blow account of the investigation, doesn't mean nothing has happened.

[poohbear]

I'll say no more...I've made my point.I can't see why a criminal act has been passed to the RSPCA except of course for political reasons.If it's been done to establish that an investigation will be fair...then it says a lot for the publics trust in our once superb and respected police force.

I for one will leave the subject at that.

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by Squirrelx

What puzzles me is what he was doing with two dogs as I was always under the impression it was a one-to-one situation i.e. one handler, one dog.

Many police dog handlers will operate routinely with two dogs - it is not uncommon: One general purpose dog alongside a specialist (a drugs or explosives dog for instance)

[Squirrelx]

Originally Posted by larachmor

Many police dog handlers will operate routinely with two dogs - it is not uncommon: One general purpose dog alongside a specialist (a drugs or explosives dog for instance)

Many thanks for the clarification. As I said, it had been puzzling me.

[lincs lass]

All I know is that I read (in 2 papers) was that he was not on duty, had gone to where he worked and left the dogs in the car. He is on 'compassionate' leave at present. The RSPCA are supposed to be doing a post mortem on the dogs.

As far as I am concerned he should get a prison sentence and the full fine of £20,000, be banned from keeping any animal for the rest of his life and should be named and shamed!! And my own punishment for him would be for him to sit in a hot car wearing a fur coat and hat.....so he got some idea of how those poor dogs suffered.

Also I have seen enough people the last few days out walking their dogs mid afternoon when it has been really hot, I even followed a car for a while up the A52 and there was a dog in a cage in the boot with the sun shining onto the back window, I assume the owners were on their way to Skegness. The dog did not look happy......I had my dog in the car on Saturday (he came to work with me). He was in his crate in the car (not the boot) and I always carry water for him, I had a fan on the crate and the sun roof open and my window and although it was a 20 min journey home at 1.20pm it was still too hot. He gets walked about 9.30pm in hot weather and before 8am, then the rest of the time he's in his run. Then when I get home out comes the hose and pool for him to play in. I would never, ever leave him unattended in a car on a hot day so it's beyond belief that a so called experienced dog handler would do this.

[Ciderpuss]

Just heard on the BBC news that the policeman responsible for the 2 police dogs that died has been suspended from duty & will face proscecution.

[GTH]

It`s good to know that the full force of the law is now going to come down on this so called animal lover....as he`s now going to be prosecuted.

A rare occurance where the police are involved....and shows that real animal lovers who voiced their opinions were correct, with the basic FACTS that were and are available.

All credit to those who made this a public issue and who made their feelings known.......well done !!

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by GTH

It`s good to know that the full force of the law is now going to come down on this so called animal lover....as he`s now going to be prosecuted.

A rare occurance where the police are involved....and shows that real animal lovers who voiced their opinions were correct, with the basic FACTS that were and are available.

All credit to those who made this a public issue and who made their feelings known.......well done !!

The Crown Prosecution Service has ruled that there is indeed a case to answer, but you are wrong in saying that the facts "were and are available."
The only facts known were that two dogs had died, and that a police officer was involved. It is only when the case is presented to the court that the facts of the case become known to the public at large - and not before.

[GTH]

Originally Posted by larachmor

The Crown Prosecution Service has ruled that there is indeed a case to answer, but you are wrong in saying that the facts "were and are available."
The only facts known were that two dogs had died, and that a police officer was involved. It is only when the case is presented to the court that the facts of the case become known to the public at large - and not before.

In your opinion...which you are entitled to...however there are more facts in the public domain than you state....which is why he is being prosecuted...as most animal lovers would expect.

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by GTH

In your opinion...which you are entitled to...however there are more facts in the public domain than you state....which is why he is being prosecuted...as most animal lovers would expect.

Perhaps you will enlighten us as to what these "facts" (other than the obvious) are?

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by larachmor

The only facts known were that two dogs had died, and that a police officer was involved. It is only when the case is presented to the court that the facts of the case become known to the public at large - and not before.

I think it is all quite simple.

A guy ,who happens to be a policeman left his dogs in his car for whatever reason, in extreme heat.They died because of that and regardless of who he is,or why he left them, he has got to be held accountable.

I am a dog lover and i know NOT to leave my dogs like that period but i do feel for him because i believe he is already paying a heavy price.He is not alone though.People in general often think "I will only be a minute" not realising just how long 5 minutes is in a boiling car .

It was a tragic situation, for the guy as well as his dogs.People are so very quick to criticise and i understand that too.

The dogs were helpless but the guy had a choice.

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by Pippa

I think it is all quite simple.

A guy ,who happens to be a policeman left his dogs in his car for whatever reason, in extreme heat.They died because of that and regardless of who he is,or why he left them, he has got to be held accountable.

I am a dog lover and i know NOT to leave my dogs like that period but i do feel for him because i believe he is already paying a heavy price.He is not alone though.People in general often think "I will only be a minute" not realising just how long 5 minutes is in a boiling car .

It was a tragic situation, for the guy as well as his dogs.People are so very quick to criticise and i understand that too.

The dogs were helpless but the guy had a choice.

I don't disagree with the sentiment of your post.
The fact that the CPS have undertaken a prosecution says a lot. They are invariably weak when it comes to putting a case before a court if there is any likelihood that it will not result in a conviction.
The only people that know the facts are those that are involved with the case, or have personal knowledge - the rest, as is much of the content of earlier posts is simply gossip arising out of the media coverage.
We are all dog lovers I would imagine - and if he is found to be guilty of neglect then he deserves to be punished - of course. BUT - We, as the general public do not know the facts, and should not seek to label the officer concerned until the case has been heard. All I am saying is - let us wait - nothing more.

[Pippa]

Originally Posted by larachmor

- if he is found to be guilty of neglect then he deserves to be punished - of course. BUT - We, as the general public do not know the facts, and should not seek to label the officer concerned until the case has been heard. All I am saying is - let us wait - nothing more.

I agree L .

[christina]

"Let us wait". That is all we do when there is an incident involving the police force then they either retire early on a nice pension or are asked to leave the force.

A MAN left two dogs in a car, dogs died. Man should be prosecuted. Simple. However, because the man was a member of the police force the prosecution should be heavier due to the fact that he is a law enforcer! That is my opinion, not based on any media reports because I do not buy newspapers!

[larachmor]

Originally Posted by christina

"Let us wait". That is all we do when there is an incident involving the police force then they either retire early on a nice pension or are asked to leave the force.

A MAN left two dogs in a car, dogs died. Man should be prosecuted. Simple. However, because the man was a member of the police force the prosecution should be heavier due to the fact that he is a law enforcer! That is my opinion, not based on any media reports because I do not buy newspapers!

This is nothing to do with him being a police officer, it is the basic presumption in this country that ANY person is innocent until proven guilty.
As I have stated previously, the fact that the CPS are pursuing the case suggests that there is sufficient evidence to secure a conviction - otherwise they probably wouldn't bother! However, there could be all sorts of reasons of mitigation (I trust you do not need an example - I'll provide a couple if you wish that would return a "not guilty" verdict if accepted )
The two (known) facts that you quote - that he left the dogs in the car, and the dogs died are NOT on their own, sufficient for conviction - Now - that IS simple.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by larachmor

This is nothing to do with him being a police officer, it is the basic presumption in this country that ANY person is innocent until proven guilty.

Which is something I wish more people would remember, not just in relation to this case, or Police Officers, but in general.

What a lot of people also don't realise, is that regardless of the outcome of any legal proceedings, the police officer is also subject to the Police Disciplinary Code. Even if found to be innocent under normal law, he could still be found guilty of an offence under that code which ultimately could lead to him being sacked, not just "allowed to retire with a nice pension".