Help identify droppings please!!

LJB · #1 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 07:58 PM

Hi
First posting, I hope I've loaded the image successfully!!
I have found these mysterious droppings in my kitchen along the edge of the wall by the cooker on two occasions recently. Both times droppings have been in wet puddle - urine? At first I was worried that they were a rat although they don't look anything like rat droppings but couldn't think of anything else that could have deposited them!! However there has been no gnawing or nibbling of food to suggest it is a rodent. I'm now wondering if it is possibly a frog or toad?!!! Although where it's hiding out I've no idea as I've searched under all the cupboards! Droppings have been around 1.5cm long.
Any suggestions or positive identifications would be much appreciated!
Thanks
LJB

djackso · #2 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 08:08 PM

What features make you think they are not rat droppings, because the most likely explanation is a rat.

Rodents require water, if you have a fridge/freezer, look behind this, if it has a grill, look at this - rats like to hide in flattened vertical spaces, in my experience - oh, just don't ask.

djackso · #3 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 08:11 PM

Sorry - just saw your post. Still look like rat faeces to me.

HOPE YOU WERE VERY CAREFUL when you picked that pencil up. Weil's disease is pretty serious. You must wash your hands, use disinfectant etc.

mh68 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 08:22 PM

Hi LJB welcome to the forums, your pics posted fine

The only suspect I can think of at the moment is a Rat. Theyre certainly not from any of the smaller rodents...
I`ll have a think and come back if i can come up with any other alternatives...

Mark H

LJB · #5 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 09:52 PM

Thanks for the replies. Just that they didn't look like rat droppings I've seen before - not pellet shaped and rather long!! And yes, that pencil went straight in the bin and copious amounts of disenfecting has taken place. Have left out bait / rat killer but nothing been taken so that's why I wasn't sure.

mh68 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 09:55 PM

The only other droppings i`ve seen that are similar would be those of a very young Hedgehog, but i`m sure you would have noticed one of those wandering around your home

Theyre too large for any of the other rodents,so apart from those already mentioned i`m at a loss really...

Mark H

thunder · #7 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 10:44 PM

I wonder if they might be from a large slug? Any silvery tracks about? They certainly don't look like any rat dropping I have ever seen.

henrya

mh68 · #8 (**permalink**) 10-07-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunder

I wonder if they might be from a large slug? Any silvery tracks about? They certainly don't look like any rat dropping I have ever seen.

henrya

Thats an interesting thought Henry, I agree they dont look too much like Rat, but thats all I could think of.I hadnt considered a "non-mammal" culprit...

Mark H

djackso · #9 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 06:05 AM

I wouldn't rule out the "large mouse".

http://www.pestcontrol-products.com/..._droppings.jpg (rat droppings)

Unless someone can spot the difference?

mh68 · #10 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djackso

I wouldn't rule out the "large mouse".

http://www.pestcontrol-products.com/..._droppings.jpg (rat droppings)

Unless someone can spot the difference?

Looks like you did the same google search as me, i found the same pic late last night

The lack of feeding signs in LJB`s case is puzzling though, Rats are usually into everything...

Mark H

mh68 · #11 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 07:07 AM

Just had another close look at the images. On the pics, the dropping on the far right looks as though its been trampled/walked over(the left hand end of the dropping is squashed),which would rule out Henry`s suggestion if this is the case.
The apparent pool of urine accompanying the droppings sounds right for Rat.Shame there are no signs of footprints present after whatever it was had trodden through the urine/droppings, that would help.
Might be worth putting something down to try and capture some tracks - maybe a little bit of flour or similar that would adhere to the feet and leave some marks as the animal moved around???

Mark H

Dogghound · #12 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 07:21 PM

I agree with the rat they are to large for the other small mammals. Plus look like rat, the pool of urine around them also sugests rats.

thunder · #13 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 08:21 PM

The droppings are in a very strange place - right in the angle of the wall like that. I can't quite see how a rat would get them there.

henrya

Dogghound · #14 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 08:32 PM

Rats tend to stick to the edges of rooms, whilst doing this they develop routes in which other rats follow its common for rats to leave odour trails of urine and genital secretions along these tracks for others to follow (as well as tell the status of other rats in the area) so them being so far against the wall isnt to strange. The urine rules out slugs etc, the droppings and location rules out toads/frogs etc, the size (Brown Rat 15-20mm long av.) compared to (House Mouse 3-5mm av), (Wood Mouse 5-7mm av). There is simply nothing else it could be im afraid.

thunder · #15 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Rats tend to stick to the edges of rooms, whilst doing this they develop routes in which other rats follow its common for rats to leave odour trails of urine and genital secretions along these tracks for others to follow (as well as tell the status of other rats in the area) so them being so far against the wall isnt to strange. The urine rules out slugs etc, the droppings and location rules out toads/frogs etc, the size (Brown Rat 15-20mm long av.) compared to (House Mouse 3-5mm av), (Wood Mouse 5-7mm av). There is simply nothing else it could be im afraid.

Afraid I disagree with you on most of those points - but especially that the droppings look nothing like the droppings that 'my' rats leave. Why does the location rule out frogs and toads, and not rats? They are right in the angle of floor and wall, as far as I can tell.

henrya

Dogghound · #16 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 09:21 PM

Location - Rats often live in buildings amphibians dont, In the angle why does that mean its not a rat? Im unaware of frogs and toads leaving pools of urine around droppings? Im sure you appreciate that droppings vary on diet, so its highly likely that these rats in a different location with different factors affecting diet produce different droppings to your rats. What other else do you disagree with?

djackso · #17 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 09:23 PM

Rat droppings are notoriously variable. I don't think rat can yet be ruled out

Can anyone find a picture of a frog dropping - I cannot?

I also favour rat because they are fast - if they hear you coming they move like grease lightning, usually out of sight and upwards. You would most likely have spotted an amphibian in your kitchen.

mh68 · #18 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djackso

Rat droppings are notoriously variable. I don't think rat can yet be ruled out

Can anyone find a picture of a frog dropping - I cannot.

I also favour rat because they are fast - if they hear you coming they move like grease lightning, usually out of sight and upwards. You would most likely have spotted an amphibian in your kitchen.

I tried to find examples of Amphibian droppings, but found zilch. My books have very sparse info too which wasnt of any use.Until I can find anything useful, I`ll still go with Rat.

Mark H

thunder · #19 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote
Location - Rats often live in buildings amphibians dont,
Endquote

Toads are frequently found in buildings

Quote
In the angle why does that mean its not a rat?
Endquote

How would it get the dropping right in the angle? One leg halfway up the wall?

Quote
Im unaware of frogs and toads leaving pools of urine around droppings?
Endquote

Also I'm unaware of rats leaving dropping in pools of urine.

Quote
Im sure you appreciate that droppings vary on diet, so its highly likely that these rats in a different location with different factors affecting diet produce different droppings to your rats.
Endquote

I appreciate that - but I've never seen rat droppings looking anything like those in the picture

Quote
What other else do you disagree with?
Endquote

Not sure the liquid (not proved to be urine), rules out slugs and snails.

But I think we need more evidence before we say for certain who made these droppings, so I'm quite happy to leave them "unidentified" until we have more information.

henrya

mh68 · #20 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunder

But I think we need more evidence before we say for certain who made these droppings, so I'm quite happy to leave them "unidentified" until we have more information.

henrya

Yep agree with that Henry, hence my suggestion of trying to put something down to get some prints (if indeed the creature has feet

).Up til now all we can do is make educated guesses as to what it may be, without any certainty.

Mark H

thunder · #21 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh68

......(if indeed the creature has feet

).....

Mark H

Now there's a thought! Snake or Slow Worm perhaps?

henrya

mh68 · #22 (**permalink**) 11-07-2008, 11:03 PM

Well, I must admit the thread the other day about the Grass Snake in the house did cross my mind, but i`ve no idea what the droppings of either Slow Worms or snakes look like, nor could I find anything on the `net when I tried a search. It would though, explain the lack of feeding signs, which Rats would invariably leave in their wake. Food for though indeed,and more possibilities

Mark H

Dogghound · #23 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thunder

Quote
Location - Rats often live in buildings amphibians dont,
Endquote

Toads are frequently found in buildings

Quote
In the angle why does that mean its not a rat?
Endquote

How would it get the dropping right in the angle? One leg halfway up the wall?

Quote
Im unaware of frogs and toads leaving pools of urine around droppings?
Endquote

Also I'm unaware of rats leaving dropping in pools of urine.

Quote
Im sure you appreciate that droppings vary on diet, so its highly likely that these rats in a different location with different factors affecting diet produce different droppings to your rats.
Endquote

I appreciate that - but I've never seen rat droppings looking anything like those in the picture

Quote
What other else do you disagree with?
Endquote

Not sure the liquid (not proved to be urine), rules out slugs and snails.

But I think we need more evidence before we say for certain who made these droppings, so I'm quite happy to leave them "unidentified" until we have more information.

henrya

1. It looks nothing like toad droppings
2. Toads may occasionally be found in buildings but its far more common for rats
3. A rats afew inches long not a dog or a cat wouldnt be hard to back up against the wall and urinate and leave droppings in the angle, if your saying a rat carnt then why does that mean a frog or toad can?
4. Why would snails and slugs produce liquid?
5.What is your suggestion for what you think it is? since everything ive said is clearly so bizarre.

Tracey.A · #24 (**permalink**) 12-07-2008, 11:13 AM

I too think that these are the droppings of the Brown Rat, as they will often leave their droppings in corners or along the edge of a wall. The size of the droppings fits as well. Not sure about the urine, either a territorial marking or to attract a mate - I really don't know, so I'm just guessing about the urine.

Tracey