Annoying times

[Dan Salter]

Originally Posted by spoonbillcourt

Our County Naturalists society is very poor. It has many members but no one does anything. Our local Natural history society is full of old pepole as is the RSPB members group again no-one wants to do anything. all recording work is ignored by all societies mentioned. I have been working my area for several years and all I meet are "Twitchers" or normal birders. I have tried to teach youngsters about Natural History but they find it boring.

Until Natural history societies put their foot down and get people to adhere to their constitution ie normally " To study and record and submit records of our Natural history" members are not going to be motivated to do anything. when i research a particular species in my county I ask the relevent recorder for any records and I get the same reply. "The only records we have are yours"

Once I asked my local Natural history club to assist in our county Buttefly atlas. i produced recording forms and an identification sheet and got the following in return. "Comma?" Aston Park Small Tortoiseshell? Mansion House Gardens" of the 80 members I had one record sheet returned.

Apathy is ripe in many societies like this and I don't know what we should do to motivate them.

Many years ago our local Naturals History Society would have 50 of its 80 members out on field trips and during lunch a blanket would be laid down and the finds would be looked at and recorded. During the morning the Botanists and entomologists would split up but at lunch all would gather to discuss the finds on the blanket. Now we get a lot of elderley women who just come to chat. The old men sit in the cars and sleep and the younger members just want to Birdwatch.

In my county there are many more Birdwatchers than General Naturalists and this is one of the reasons why it is hard to find the all rounder. also with shift work and overtime no one has the time to go out and look at nature anymore.

We are a dying breed. If we had all the forum members in one town we would have the best Natural history society in Britain.

I do sympathise with you but whilst Birdwatching is so easy nowadays and takes up little time and Botany and other subjects time consuming there are going to be less and less Field Naturalists around and that is worrying.


Yes most clubs are full of old people because they have so much time on their hands When I was learning I met some really obnoxious Naturalists and one in particular was the rudest man I ever met. I persevered with other more kinder Naturalists and was soon on the road to sucess. I never forgot that pig of a man and his attitude as he was one of the best Naturalists I had ever met but he just did not like sharing his knowledge. Thankfully others did and I wish I could share mine.

I do take a man out with me who wishes to learn but he just does not listen. I tried to get him to use a notebook and showed him how to submit and format his records but he just will not do it. He is like a child. He procrastiantes and fusses terribly but i am kind and patient as I hope one day it will sink in and he can continue where I leave off when I die. (Been given 18 months ATM)

Oh I know just how you all feel!!

SBC

Spoonbill...that was so very interesting, im not involved with a local natural history society yet...but i see elements of what you talk of all the time when out voulnteering with the local trusts and such. You will be pleased to know that i am an alrounder..a naturalist (in progress) and not just a birder.

Also...the closing lines of your post are a bit of a shock and im sorry to hear that!.

Dan

[Dan Salter]

Originally Posted by spoonbillcourt

here are some of the incidents I have had to put up with.

Stopped by armed Police because someone mistook my tripod for a gun.

Being questioned by the Police because someone reported a man in the park staring at trees with Binoculars.

beimg stoned by children in same park whilst birdwatching.

Being pulled out of a roadside verge by the legs whilst photographing grasshoppers cos the man thought I had collapsed.

Having plants pulled up by people after I was seen photographing them because they "Must be Rare"

Destroying plants I have photographed because they dont want people traipsing up their road at all hours of the day and night.

Calling out "This is private property" when recording plants on grass verges outside peoples homes.

Being photographed and Videoed because of my odd behaviour.

Being labelled simple for peering into hedges and woods. (Here comes the Village idiot)

Whilst recording urban flora for the BSBI Atlas being questioned by the Police for going equipped for Burglary. (Bags in my posession for collecting vouchers) note book (They said) for writing down addresses camera for photographing access points.

Questioned by members of the Public normally with the words "What are you writing in that book?" when recording my finds.

Whilst recording hedgerow Flora for the BSBI Atlas people stopping their cars with the question " What are you doing?"

In in one village when questioned "What are you doing" I explained that I was recording wild flowers. the response was " There are no flowers around here only weeds, I am calling he Police!"

Accused by members of the public for looking for Drugs whilst recording Fungi. (Police turned up yet again) this time I was arrested for suspicion of collection of drugs at a drop off point whilst searching Grassland for Butterfly larvae.

Accused of Acts of gathering information for Terroism whilst Birding beside a Prison ( I write down birds in BTO Code form, and draw maps of nest sites)

I feel suitably aggrevied at times too. the public even with all the TV and press coverage of Nature watching is still treated with suspicion.

Finally being the butt of Lewd "Oh yea I know what sort of birds youve been looking at" when I walk into a pub for lunch.

Then you hear all about the birds they kill and animals they slay cos they think they are clever.

but worst of all from members of the public "So you are one of those Twitchers then".

Know you know you are not the only one.

SBC

Oh my god!! that was part hilarious, part ridiculous and part amazing!...the pulling you out by your legs one had me in stitches...but i am shocked at the stupidity of the public sometimes...i thought i had problems and got frustrated just when a female dogwalker goes obviously off track to avoid me as im a "youngish guy with NO DOG walking in the woods" meaning i must be a rapist or a murderer clearly

Seriously though....what DO YOU LOOK LIKE, or where do you live?....how can all that happen to one person...do you look dodgy in any way? or live in a real dodgy area? im so curious....and i seriously think you have a book there!! get writing...or at least write it for a magazine, something like the countryman or British Wildlife would probably love to publish your stories as an article! its clearly a problem that could affect any one of us naturlaist types?...but it has a humorous twist (in places) as well....thanks for sharing with us what must i can only imagine get so frustrating?...surely the police must know you by now and ignore the reports of the strange man staring at trees?

[spoonbillcourt]

Most of my fieldwork is based in Urban or suburban environments. This makes you suspicious. Everyone is frightened of each other nowadays and if you dont drink, smoke and read the Daily Mirror you are treated as an oddball.

Again if you dont have a dog with you when walking in woods and copses or Commons you must be a Weirdo.
But Nature Study has always been a minority subject and treated with derision

Many a time our local Natural history club has been photographed by residents and followed by children who shout abusive comments as again most of the interesting sites rarely visited by naturalists are in built up areas.

SBC

[stripee]

It does not say much about the values of our society that interest in wildlife is seen as weird. And therefore it is no surprise that many species are becoming endangered or are treated poorly. But dogghound and others don't give up, you are worth your weight in gold. Some conservation activities do attract younger people just a case of finding them.

[zan]

There's nothing like IDing to make you feel like you don't know anything sometimes! A lot of the projects I have been involved with through work have required a fair bit of identification as well (from tiny beasties on the seabed to flatfish and sharks) which can be really cool - there's a great sense of satisfaction when you get one right! But I also know exactly how frustrating it is when you just can't get it, and there are always plenty of them.

Good luck, and stick with it!

Zan

[spoonbillcourt]

There ar c1500 Members of various Nature clubs in my area. where are they?

Who are they? What do they do?

Why the Apathetic attitude to Survey Work and Proper Field trips?

Why do they not know anything about Nature

Why do members have to be lead around like Children

Why cant they do things for themselves

Why is it only one individual that does all the recording and Committee work.

When I was editor of the annual report I sent each Committee Member a list of records ie Butterflies to one, plants to another, Fungi to another and so on and asked them to make up a report so I could get it into the report. My request was ignored so I did it all myself.

I did our quarterly Newsletter which informs members of each field trip and what was found, I got so much hassle from a Committee member about how it was written and how it was sent out that it was stressing me out so I gave it up.

I wrote up a three year report which was behind and mde it into a full volume of the missing years. It took me nine months to write, and did not get a thank you or nothing. Most members just looked at it and made derisory comments abou it.

Yes very annoying times

[coasty]

Look mate this is how I see it..

I am 51years old and you know more about many aspects of nature than I ever will.
I have loved the outdoors and wildlife all my life. But I can honestly say my family and friends have very little interest... Well to be more exact no interest in wildlife. Apart from my youngest daughter who I am still working on...However my interest and interaction with the outdoors has at times kept me sane,,,So if you love bugs then you just keep on loving and learning about them,,,

However do not expect others to follow your interest. It is obvious that you have a deep and abiding interest in nature. Most people are unable to comprihend such enthusiasm. My interest in angling has at times been almost obsessive and has unfortunately at times alienated me to other people. It may be that your obvious knowledge and enthusiasm makes you intimidating to those older members of the group you mentioned,do not underestimate how intimidating young knowledgable enthusiastic people can be to their elders.. Give them time,,,

As for the vandals and spoilers of the world. I am afraid that it is a fact of life and the biggest weapon you have is your knowledge and enthusiasm. Only by teaching and encouraging them to have an interest will you improve their behaviour...

Finally if you really get down drop me a PM and you can come down the beck fishing with me and try and educate me on how to identify the flies I spend hours trying to imitate. If a couple of hours with me doesnt cure you nothing will because if you think you can complain wait till you meet me,

Andy

[Adam Cheeseman]

You have had it bad SBC.

Cheers,

Adam

Sorry I hadn't read post 17 when I wrote the above. Very embarrassed.

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by spoonbillcourt

here are some of the incidents I have had to put up with.

Stopped by armed Police because someone mistook my tripod for a gun.

Being questioned by the Police because someone reported a man in the park staring at trees with Binoculars.

beimg stoned by children in same park whilst birdwatching.

Being pulled out of a roadside verge by the legs whilst photographing grasshoppers cos the man thought I had collapsed.

Having plants pulled up by people after I was seen photographing them because they "Must be Rare"

Destroying plants I have photographed because they dont want people traipsing up their road at all hours of the day and night.

Calling out "This is private property" when recording plants on grass verges outside peoples homes.

Being photographed and Videoed because of my odd behaviour.

Being labelled simple for peering into hedges and woods. (Here comes the Village idiot)

Whilst recording urban flora for the BSBI Atlas being questioned by the Police for going equipped for Burglary. (Bags in my posession for collecting vouchers) note book (They said) for writing down addresses camera for photographing access points.

Questioned by members of the Public normally with the words "What are you writing in that book?" when recording my finds.

Whilst recording hedgerow Flora for the BSBI Atlas people stopping their cars with the question " What are you doing?"

In in one village when questioned "What are you doing" I explained that I was recording wild flowers. the response was " There are no flowers around here only weeds, I am calling he Police!"

Accused by members of the public for looking for Drugs whilst recording Fungi. (Police turned up yet again) this time I was arrested for suspicion of collection of drugs at a drop off point whilst searching Grassland for Butterfly larvae.

Accused of Acts of gathering information for Terroism whilst Birding beside a Prison ( I write down birds in BTO Code form, and draw maps of nest sites)

I feel suitably aggrevied at times too. the public even with all the TV and press coverage of Nature watching is still treated with suspicion.

Finally being the butt of Lewd "Oh yea I know what sort of birds youve been looking at" when I walk into a pub for lunch.

Then you hear all about the birds they kill and animals they slay cos they think they are clever.

but worst of all from members of the public "So you are one of those Twitchers then".

Know you know you are not the only one.

SBC

Good grief! What sorry times we live in. Us natural historians don't have it easy do we??

Regards, Chris

[Meta menardi]

Don't go hunting for spiders in bushes in the parks of Manchester! Just a tip from daughter, but she did say the policeman was quite nice.

[ron1863]

Cheer up mate, your not alone in struggling with ID, I am fine with birds and mammals but insects and fungi are alien to me, and I've been interested in wildlife since I was a kid. I was lucky in that me and my pals were all brought up in a small housing development in the middle of a wood and we spent our youth discovering the wildlife in it.
Now that I'm older I much prefer going out into the woods or moors on my own, mostly for some peace and quiet. There are other younger people out there who are interested in nature - we older ones didn't just start getting interested in wildlife when we hit a certain age.

[Dogghound]

Cheers for the replys, i didnt expect the over all response that i have got, I just am abit of a perfectionist when it comes to ID and sometimes i try to hard to ID every single thing sometimes taking risks. I didnt think that other people would have similar experiences regarding societys etc. I think i just let things get on top of me abit. But i have read every post and each one gives great advice and i appreciate it alot. I think with the words that you have said, springwatch being back on and a brief trip to the lake district ive had a good kick up the behind to stop moaning and get back to it. . Cheers again for your replys they mean alot as i have said before on this forum it is this group as i see as a true wildlife society and its this site i learn most from, and im sorry if i relayed a negative message i understand that there is some problems with people and wildlife in this country its just so annoying.

[JennyS]

i understand that there is some problems with people and wildlife in this country its just so annoying

And the situation is even worse over here!
Between lack of knowledge and interest from most of the general public and the serious un-willingness of most experts to share their knowledge with those they consider beneath them ...........

[Heart-shaped World]

Hi Dogghound,

I'm amazed that you're only 22, even more amazed when you said you'd only been doing 'inverts' for a couple of years. Your future is incredibly promising, imagine the knowledge you'll have in another five years and so on, a notable naturalist in the making!
To put your id frustrations into perspective, last year I overheard a surveyor bemoaning the fact that he found it hard to separate Black Darters from Downy Emeralds! National Dragonfly Atlas beware
Also have had far from encouraging experiences from well established organisations, but reluctant to discuss that openly with this site's 'googleability'.
You put a lot of us to shame with your efforts, keep on with it!

Darren.