bird tables attract rats

[Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by cathyh

Hi Cowgirl,

It is good to hear that it is possible to make them understand they should move on, I understand that pet fancy rats are intelligent, so why not wild ones!
The Funnel idea is a useful tip for anyone with a bird table on a pole. Will a large enough funnel defeat squirrels as well? a homemade funnel could be made to a generous size.

Hi Cathy,

I actually quite like rats. I was once told by a rodent expert that rats (in his experience pet or lab ones anyway) actually quite like interacting with humans & unlike mice if you stick your hand in a cage, mice will run away in terror but rats will always come up to investigate & they will also be the one sticking their heads out of the top of cage to see what's going on. There are also stories about wild rats moving from one field to another (from times when crop stubble was burnt) & some rats helping other blind or injured ones across the road. I think they are quite social family creatures. Still don't want them on my feeders tho!
I got the funnel from an agricultural store, it's quite a large bright orange one. It fit the pole perfectly without any adjustment. All I had to do was make a small hole in the tube, lined it up with a screwhole (where the poles fit together) then use the pole screw to hold the whole thing together. I got the inspiration from a garden centre that sold anti squirrel baffels which is basically the same idea except it looked fancier, but it did have a wider flare. I objected to paying £15 for a bit of plastic so decided to buy a funnel at a few quid, it doesn't look as fancy but it works for rats. I don't have a problem with squirrels just the odd one so I don't know if the funnel would work for squirrels, I'm quite rural here so I presume there's no shortage of food for them, plus I think gamekeepers keep them under control as well, they eat eggs & even chicks, nasty little grey interlopers, apparently there are some reds about 20 miles away & you never know, they might head over here one day!

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by cathyh

I understand that pet fancy rats are intelligent, so why not wild ones!

I understand they're two different species.

The brown rat is Rattus norvegicus, whereas the fancy rat is a variety of the black rat Rattus rattus.

Jim

[cathyh]

Thanks for that Jim, but I would guess that all rats would have a similar intelligence. all being rats.

Cowgirl, ag' store is it then for a funnel, if I decide to start bird feeding again.
As a teenager, our son used to have a pet rat. It was very tame and he would take it out in his pocket. He came home one day and said "they let me go first in the queue, in the paper shop" How we roared with laughter as he explained that whenever he stopped walking, Ratty would peep, head and shoulders, out of his coat pocket, for a look around! Our son used this way of 'speed shopping' more than once!

[impis]

Ratty has been visiting my bird feeding station too. Bold as brass. But i've only seen him once, and I suspect he's waiting til nightfall before helping himself.

You can see his picture here:

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...m/IMG_0726.jpg

[John_M]

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

I understand they're two different species.

The brown rat is Rattus norvegicus, whereas the fancy rat is a variety of the black rat Rattus rattus.

Jim

No, the fancy rat is a domesticated Rattus norvegicus, and they're both pretty smart creatures!

[Rashmika]

The chances are you already have rats in the area, if not already in your garden.

Putting the feed out for birds will attract the rats too, I had the same experience (it's not nice taking your daughter out to see the birds on the feeder and being greeted by a hairy rats @rse hanging out of one).

Personally and *if* you start to get more than one rat visitor in your garden then I think you can either but bait down in a box or live with it.

I was happy to put up with "maybe" one rat, but I started seeing two.. then three... at that point I had to do something about it. As much as I value wildlife, I attach greater value to the health of my family.

[John_M]

Originally Posted by MrKeeper

3 plagues and a host of other horrible diseases caused by rats would of made enough people realise that they are disgusting little critters, wouldn't you?

Plague is caused by a bacterium, Yersinia pestis.
One of the vectors for this disease is a flea carried by the black rat, so rats certainly helped spread the disease, due to their presence on ships and in the thatch of the peoples dwellings. However, humans are far more responsible than rats for the rapid worldwide spread of bubonic plague. As far as I know rats do not undertake large scale migration.
It is true that they carry several zoonoses, but they are hardly unique amongst common mammals for that.
I do realise that they are intelligent and adaptable, and breed rapidly; I also recognise that in many circumstances their numbers need controlling; however, I cannot understand the almost hysterical reactions some people have when the word 'rat' is mentioned, and emotion and superstition are then substituted for thought and reason.
If someone needs to make a case for control or extermination, I am sure they can do so without recourse to emotional trigger words like 'filthy' or 'disgusting'. If you can't make a case for real reasons, then the rats are unlikely to be a problem.
I have an interest in spiders, but one of my friends thinks they are disgusting and dirty; should I kill every spider I see for those reasons?

[Monkey Orchid]

Echoing some points which others have made here...

Rats are attracted to feeding opportunities, just like grey squirrels, mice, and of course the birds we put out food for. Rats have thrived alongside humans for centuries, because we do have a habit of leaving quantities of food lying around, whether that be on bird tables, in grain stores or simply tossing away half-eaten kebabs onto our streets.

Given that brown rats are endemic in this country and it doesn't look likely that they'll ever be eradicated, we have to come to terms with living alongside them. So thinking of them as disgusting nasty pests and wanting to get rid of them completely isn't going to lead to a solution. OK, they are vectors for certain diseases which humans can contract: so are many other animals, including invertebrates and domestic pets such as cats and dogs. I assume when I'm filling up my birdfeeders that all kinds of bacteria may be present (many, such as E. coli, transmitted by the birds themselves), and consequently I give my hands a good wash afterwards. When I used to go canoeing I knew there was a risk of Weils Disease and made sure I covered cuts with waterproof plasters, had a shower afterwards etc.

I can appeciate that when rats invade your living space or chicken houses it becomes important to control them. And it's not nice to come face-to-face with one unexpectedly, if you're nervous of animals. But they are intelligent, social creatures... And don't deserve to be demonised in the way they sometimes are. Even where their introduction has caused serious damage to native biodiversity (as in New Zealand, where they predate ground-nesting birds), it's not the rats' fault. We humans brought them to the UK and other parts of the world: where this brings them into conflict with our interests or with native species and their numbers then need controlling, we should be honest about the fact that we created the problem and it's our responsibility to deal with it as humanely as possible. Which IMO includes respecting them as a species, rather than calling them nasty names to ease our consciences as we set the trap, load the gun or put down the poison.

Foxes, owls and cats predate rats; carrion feeders will eat dead ones (although this can be problematic, e.g. where rats have been poisoned then birds such as red kites have been badly affected). If I had a rat problem in my garden (which currently I don't: I had the odd one or two show up in the compost heap one year, but no sightings since, although I expect they're still around) I would use some of the funnel/baffle measures suggested here for bird feeders and probably cease putting food down on the ground for a while. I guess using a humane trap and relocating (at least 2 miles away) is also a possibility, though how people 2 miles away might feel about you releasing rats near them is an interesting question! The only other alternative if you trap 'em is to kill the rat humanely... Not something I would relish. Poisoning I personally see as a no-no: you have no control over where the poisoned rat will eventually die, so it potentially introduces toxic substances into the diet of wild animals or domestic pets, or the afflicted rat may crawl into an inaccessible part of your house before it kicks the bucket, leaving you with a smell that will develop far more personality than the original rat ever did.

I guess deterrence is the best option: whether that takes the form of making food sources such as bird seed more inaccessible, or actively shooting/trapping rats so they realise your garden isn't a nice easy place to set up home in, is up to the individual. Good luck to everyone with your control method of choice, and if you are still an inveterate rat-hater may I recommend Terry Pratchett's book The Amazing Maurice And His Educated Rodents as a bit of light relief?

[blackb1rd]

Really good post Monkey orchid that makes a lot more sense than many in this thread.

Seeing one rat in your garden is not automatically something that must be dealt with. If you're worried about the health issues due to having kids etc then you probably ought to never take your kids outside as there are rats EVERYWHERE out there and you have no control whatsoever over where they may have been.

There are most likely rats occasionally passing through the gardens of everyone on here though most will never see them. Those that do have resident rats usually have them for a reason - excess food, easy shelter, general lack of hygiene/tidyness etc. If they are discouraged they, being intelligent creatures, will simply move on to an easier source of food and shelter; killing really isn't necessary.

[feathered-friend]

I found what I believe is a rat burrow today quite close to the house. It is built against a neighbours garage. I must say I was quite surprised at the size bigger than I thought it would be for rat

There was excess soil spread about outside the burrow and in the entrance hole there was fresh grass. The entrance hole had a diameter of 13cm, measured from top to bottom. I could see at least 40cm into the burrow so it was quite shallow at the entrance.

Does this sound like a rat hole anyone?

I am aware being semi-rural there are probably many about, but even so I do not want it living close to the home, the bottom of the garden is fine!

I already have home made baffles on my feeders, and do not leave out excess food for the wild birds but do need to be more vigilant to clean up after our chickens who scatter their corn about. I intend to empty the bird bath and other water bowls each evening too, so ratty does not have easy access to water.

I have already filled the hole in, Hoping this disruption may encouragehim to move on. In addition I have scattered guinea pig poo about the top of the garden. I read somewhere ferret poo is a deterrent so was hoping the guinea pig droppings will be just as good. Any one got any thoughts on this? or any other ideas gratefully received.

No access to bin bags for ratty either, all pt away in plastic bins.