Gravel abstraction from old pits

[m1.carson]

Hi,

The previously dug gravel pits we've walked for approx. 7yrs, now has a barge and tug on it, with a steel hawser [rope] across the pit and up across the "footpath", which my wife nearly tripped over last night, the contractors have this morning festooned it with tape, they've been told it's private land and can do what they want.

We know it's private land, owned by a French gravel Co. the fencing has been down for at least as long as we and others have walked it, kids swim in the lakes and fish them.

Does anyone have any idea whether we have any access rights or have made a right of way after 7 or more years, I'm also told by the contractors that the gravel will be abstracted by suction and "we won't notice any difference", that smacks to me of hoovering up everything in the lake.

Max.

[tufftie]

I can't remember off hand what the timing is for access rights but think there's something about it on the Ramblers website.

[m1.carson]

Cheers tuftie,

Went there and its 20yrs to "claim" a new footpath.

This morning the contractors have hung a little sign on the rope saying, "warning construction site keep out",, they obviously haven't met our local kiddies from a notorious estate, they'll probably sink the tug, the marina had to put an 8ft fence up, and have since added "guard dogs".

Max.

[Adam Cheeseman]

Originally Posted by m1.carson

Hi,

The previously dug gravel pits we've walked for approx. 7yrs, now has a barge and tug on it, with a steel hawser [rope] across the pit and up across the "footpath", which my wife nearly tripped over last night, the contractors have this morning festooned it with tape, they've been told it's private land and can do what they want.

We know it's private land, owned by a French gravel Co. the fencing has been down for at least as long as we and others have walked it, kids swim in the lakes and fish them.

Does anyone have any idea whether we have any access rights or have made a right of way after 7 or more years, I'm also told by the contractors that the gravel will be abstracted by suction and "we won't notice any difference", that smacks to me of hoovering up everything in the lake.

Max.

You have to have used a 'path' for at least 20 years continuously and be able to prove it for it to become a PRoW. Strictly speaking you have no rights of access even if the fence is/has been down and any activity on site could be classed as one form or another of trespass.

Hoovering means that they won't have to drain the site and re-excavate, thus saving them money. It is used on large reservoirs and generally doesn't affect the birdlife present on Queen Mary Reservoir in Middlesex, but what it would do on gravel pits I cannot say.

You may want to follow up by contacting your locacl/ county councils and county wildlife trust for information.

Cheers,

Adam

[m1.carson]

Thanks Adam,

That's just what we didn't want to hear, OH botheration and blast.

But thanks anyway.

Max.

[Wild-Woman]

If someone is able to access the site-be it easily, or even with a barrier and gets injured, or worse, the contractors will be liable. There should be signage, barriers, lighting, etc. They are dicing with a lengthy spell in court otherwise.

[m1.carson]

Hi Wildwoman,

Thanks, that's what I like to hear, there aren't any signs saying private, the path is well used, the little sign they hung off the rope saying construction site keep out, has been taken down and broken already.

Max.

P.S. Not by yours truly I might add, I'm suprised the local little darlings haven't started doing trips around the pit in the contractors tug yet, never mind, they will when the weather warms up a bit. .

[m1.carson]

Hi,

An answer from the Enviroment Agency, first time in three contacts:-

Dear Max

Thank you for your enquiry regarding effects on marine life. For your
information, your query has been passed to our local External Relations
Team (Planning and Corporate Services) for attention and they will be in
touch with you shortly.

It's a start anyway.

Max.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Adam Cheeseman

You have to have used a 'path' for at least 20 years continuously and be able to prove it for it to become a PRoW.

and even then its not a definite as to start with you would have to convince the local council RoW dept that it was worth creating (you would have to show that it was in regular local use, and that there wasnt another easy route to use) then the creation order would probably go to a public enquiry if there were objections.

One thing tho if you could show that there was a path here before the initial gravel extraction started which should have been claimed in 1949 but wasnt for some reason you would have a chance (though not a certainty) of having the path claimed and added to the def map now (again you need to show that thr path was in regular public (not private) usage) - tho again this would almost certainly be subject to a public enquiry. Try looking at old (pre 1949) maps and parish records etc.

I'd suggest you contact your local RoW dept field officer (west berks for you I think) who will be able to advise you as to whether you have a possibility of a case before you waste a lot of time.

One other point is that although you dont have a right to use the "path" the gravel extractors still have a duty of care even to trespassers and thus as remiss in stretching cables accross a well known desire line - tho if they have fenced the site off and signed it as private they are probably fullfiling the duty of care

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by m1.carson

Hi,

An answer from the Enviroment Agency, first time in three contacts:-

Dear Max

Thank you for your enquiry regarding effects on marine life. For your
information, your query has been passed to our local External Relations
Team (Planning and Corporate Services) for attention and they will be in
touch with you shortly.

It's a start anyway.

Max.

one small point on this (not sure if the error is yours or the EA - concerning if it is them) - it is very unlikely that marine life will be affected. Aquatic life quite possibly but unless sea levels have risen considerably since i last checked the possibility of marine life being affected in caversham is remote.